this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2025
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*As always I do want to indicate my support and appreciation to the Maoists in the Phillipines and a few other different places. Some are good, some are definitely less good, but I see no reason not to support groups that aren't bandits

Everytime I start having doubts about Communism and Marxism Leninism, I ask myself simply "what's the answer then?" Liberalism? Well no the critique of capitalism as triumphed as being the only correct analysis here, we've established this. Anarchism? While it certainly doesn't come from a bad place, mostly, they're simply naive, and the state, its role and it's development is fairly easily understood (thx Engels and Lenin). So if not Marxism Leninism, then it must be some derivation of marxism. Left communism? I mean maybe but I cannot get left communist arguments to actually make any sense beyond "oh well they did it wrong" which is unproductive.

Beyond all of that I reach Maoism. I like Mao, the 红宝书 was my very first theoretical book. Maoists generally make sense and point at the serious issues and criticisms of socialist experiments. But, beyond the fact that i dont quite agree with their arguments...goddamn I wouldn't be able to even if God himself came down and said they were right. It's so depressing. Marx and Engels succeeded in the development and spreading of the communist ideology. Lenin succeeded in further refinement and the creation of the soviet union. By the Maoist interpretation, Mao failed, no? By the maoist interpretation every attempt at socialism failed in some form, even when the hardline Marxists like Hoxca (i know hoxca-ism is a different thing) were at the helm. Sure when they were successful they did have undeniable successes, but how do you reconcile with the fact that your interpretation means that every single attempt has been an inevitable failure? Sure, leftcoms are like this too, but they're also big believers in first world revolt, which maoists are firmly against (some even going as far to say that there isn't an imperial core proletariat). Obviously if I agreed then I would do my best to further the cause, even if I don't want to believe it (trust me, being a liberal is a lot less depressing, so I don't believe in Leninism out of convience), but I dont know how long I'd survive with that level of depression.

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[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think one of the issues with a lot of the ways we understand communist ideology is that we see it as one thing. Like Marxism-Leninism as the "Ideology" but there is a reason it has a dash. Marxism is the ideology. Leninism is the strategy. Marx recognized the issues within capitalism and developed a model to transcend it. The issue is that you can say 'hey lets do luxury gay space communism' but how? Well that's where Lenin came in. He showed us ONE strategy for how it can be done. (Hence the book called What Is To Be Done. On the nose much Lenin?)

Leninism WORKS. We know that. But like with military strategy it evolves based on your situaton. The Art of War by Sun Tzu is old as shit, but still relevant. But it doesnt mean we havent expanded on it since them.

That's what China did. Marx got the "What do we need to do?" Lenin did the "How we do it" and China is currently doing the "Now what?"

That all works. We know it does. But theres layers to it. Lenin, and Mao were fighting in very different conditions to modern liberal capitalist nations current ones. We know Lenin's strategies work in the conditions that Lenin, and Mao used them in. We know Mao made some adjustments to it due to his own specific needs. Just like any good tactician does.

So the question becomes. How do we get the conditions where we are now to be more similar to those in pre-USSR russia, and pre-PRC china? OR how do we adjust the strategies of Lenin to work in our current conditions.

We have to do one of them. I think the 2nd is more feasible personally. Maybe a combination of both though. It depends on the country.

We should also look at failures not just successes. Where did different socialist projects fail? Why did they fail? China has teams of people examining this constantly. It's one of the reason they seem to have such good foresight. They study history.

One thing people in the west need to study is European failures. Because europe had a more similar system to what we have now in the west when those failures happened, and it can tell us what not to do.

The west has adapted over time to have pressure valves to get rid of revolutionary sentiment. Liberal democracies, and their theatrics. Allowing for "peaceful" protests which accomplish nothing. Villifying actual revolutions. Theres a lot.

To break through this you need to get people to build class conciousness. To do that you need a platform. A way to start getting into peoples heads revolutionary ideas. But in a way that isn't going to get you redacted.

I don't think we can do things the way Lenin did exactly, but his model can be built off of. Expanded on to meet our current conditions.

The first step, and the thing i think everyone should be working on now is just building a power base outside of the current society. Establish communities on the principals of Juche's radical self reliance, and Democratic Centralism for decision making. It doesn't have to be a full on commune. You could just buy a building with 5 or 6 friends, and live there together, and organize from it. Be as self reliant as possible. Keep a physical library with medical handbooks/useful info. Keep supplies and train 1 or 2 people as a medic. Grow food. Have solar. Have water filters, and rain catchment. Keep your networks secure, and basically start operating like a resistance cell in your daily life. Still go to work, but pool resources and start stockpiling material things. NOT money. Dont sit on a bunch of cash. Upgrade your base.

Start networking cells like this together. As conditions worsen offer aid to local community members and make sure your clear about your socialist leanings. Let people start to associate you with it. Instead of the propaganda.

Once the time is right those cells all unite under the banner of a single vanguard party. After they've already built the good will, and the infrastucture. Do it in a time when the state is stretched thing, and let them panic. Let them crack down hard on the people who have been giving aid during the hard times. And watch as the people around them are outraged. Then start putting out more aggressive agitprop. "The State is arresting our friends! They must be stopped by any means necessary!" Be prepared to capitalize on the anger. Play the victim. Have more rural, low key, communes ready for the urban groups that dont get grabbed to flee to. Start turning those into actual resistence camps. Let the state be distracted with civil unrest because they just dismantled a massive social safety net without realizing it and people are furious. Call in your allies. Get unions to go on strike. Get the peaceful protest lovers in the street. etc. Then during the chaos you start preparing for the real fight without the states boot crushing you before you get off the ground. Massive recruitment drives. Underground network building. Militias. etc.

That's how i would do it anyway. I'm not sure it would work, but it's my attempt to adapt to the current conditions in empire. I simplified my ideas a bit because this is long enough, but the idea is just to find a way to adapt what Lenin and Mao did to our current situation. Just like how generals adapted tactics for bow warfare into musket warfare, and gun warfare.

To maybe put it into simpler words think of it like this. Lenin built his vanguard party in a nation that didnt know his strategies so he was able to get it off the ground. Once created the Bolsheviks were a force to be reckoned with. Modern states put their efforts into preventing the creation of a Bolshevik like force. Because that's the key thing Lenin never had to deal with. So we struggle to get off the ground. If we could get off the ground we could use the same tactics as Lenin. We just need to build a bridge to get there. New ideas should be directed at how do we bypass the interference from the state, and build something like what Lenin, and Mao built. Because once we can build that we win. It's why they're so scared of Leninism in particular. Why do much effort goes into villifying it over something like anarchism. Despite the goals being similar.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 days ago

This might visualize it. Think of the plan as different pieces. A lot of people think it looks like this. [Marxism]->[Leninism]->[Socialism With (country) Characteristics]->[New thing we need to figure out] Thats not it. It's like this. [Marxism]->[New thing we need to figure out]->[Leninism]->.... The block is not at the end of the journey. Theyre blocking us at the beginning. Everything else works all we have to do is fill in the blank and get through that part.

[–] REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Maoism is only tangentially related to Mao. Mao was explicit about the fact that the ideas and theories of his comrades and his worked for China and were not universal. This turned into Mao Zedong Thought - Marxism-Leninism applied to China.

Maoism (Marxism-Leninism-Maoism) was coined by a dude in Peru who considered the lessons of Mao universal in nature.

Reality agrees with MZT: Protractred peoples war works great in warlord China where there's hardly any transport infrastructure. But less so on the Philipines, where troops can be moved by sea almost everywhere. Or India, where the old british train net was set upto loot the place and to move troops around to crush uprisings.

[–] mkkhan@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Any thoughts on this piece? https://kites-journal.org/2019/12/11/on-infantile-internet-disorders-and-real-questions-of-revolutionary-strategy-a-response-to-the-debate-over-the-universality-of-protracted-peoples-war/

I am under the impression that most NA maoist orgs except for Gonzalists have moved beyond the universality of PPW and understand the need for establishing a firm base and a vanguard before anything could be achieved. Even the peasant revolution idea is being struck down by them.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This is the inevitable conclusion of the logic “practical success = correctness.” If something exists it’s “right.” If something doesn’t exist it must be wrong. Scientific socialism isn’t merely something to have faith in. Marx is supposed to show why capitalism sucks for the proletariat and what is necessary to build a world in the proletariat’s interests. I encourage you to cease your ideology shopping and read this: https://ruthlesscriticism.com/Marxism.htm

[–] King_Simp@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Thats not what I meant with this post. I dont "ideology shop." I suppose I can elaborate although I don't think I should've needed to. It was simply examining the alternatives if Marxism-Leninism was wrong. If there are no alternative theories that fit the facts then Marxism Leninism must be correct.

And my point was not "practical success=correct." (Although presumably thats at least part of analysis. If the USSR was as successful as the Free Territory then we wouldnt talk about the Bolsheviks the same way, no?) My point was questioning how anyone has revolutionary optimism as a Maoist if every example is an abject and almost instantaneous failure under said theory. Maybe I spent too long on the preamble but that was my main point

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago

It was simply examining the alternatives if Marxism-Leninism was wrong. If there are no alternative theories that fit the facts then Marxism Leninism must be correct.

The real alternative to Marxism-Leninism isn't even Maoism, but something like Nkrumahism-Toureism adopted by various pan-Africanists. At the end of the day, both Marxism-Leninism and Nkrumahism-Toureism are branches of scientific socialism, so they'll converge because both ideologies are powered by Marxist economic analysis, emancipation of the working masses as a political goal, and dialectical materialism.

I don't really consider the branches of Marxism (Trotskyism, Maoism, Hoxhaism, and so on) to be all that different in the grand scheme of things outside of just thinking X country is AES or not. Seriously, what distinguishes a Trotskyist analysis from a Hoxhaist analysis or a Maoist analysis on a country like Paraguay outside of some semi-relevant quote from their respective head? It would just be like any other Marxist analysis.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You missed my point. You’re viewing ideologies like commodities in a store. “This one’s got a decent success rating, but I’m not sure. What about the others?” It’s opportunist. You see communism as another thing to vote for; a leader to identify with.

Since communism is not currently “successful” (USSR dead and China reformed) you’re no longer sure you can count on them to be a reasonable alternative to “support.”

Communism is the self-liberation of the proletariat. We’re fighting capitalism, not trying to duplicate a far away system.

I can’t say I don’t relate. A few times I’ve thought “without being able to count on AES how do people cope?” I don’t see that as a problem any more. We can abolish capitalism. My task is to spread a powerful understanding and fight errors—not discover the absolute correct doctrine and toss in my support. That doesn’t mean I’m better than China. It means they’re the “real movement” for their country and not mine.

Maybe I’m wrong and you’re really just trying to get in the head of a Maoist, but that’s what I’ll have you consider.

[–] King_Simp@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I you're right in your last paragraph. My point is not "error which ideology should I suppport" it's that there is one theory and way of practice, marxism-leninism, among others. Ergo, if Marxism-Leninism was wrong then naturally another theory would be right [of course, there is the possibility that a new theory would need to be made, but that's putting the cart before the horse]. I'm basically just attempting to look at thing from different worldviews to see if maybe they are correct. I didn't detail my reasoning in depth because that wasn't the point of the post. I was more just asking about the Maoist mindset than having a rigorous rebuttal to ultra-tendencies

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is still muddled. What does it mean for an ideology to be “wrong?” What does it mean for one to be “right?” If you don’t have a standard you’re judging ML by, how do you know when it’s met? If your standard is “success” I’d question that. Of course Maoism may fail its own standards, but that doesn’t mean something else succeeds them.

[–] King_Simp@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Its not. You're confusing two halves of the posts. One was me explaining why I was thinking this at all, which was the part about weighing, examining, and understanding ideologies and their failings.

The second half was detailing the main point, which I've been thinking about for a while, which is that the Maoist viewpoint is extremely depressing. No matter if it's right or not, it's just the fact that their worldview is such, that every attempt has failed and that Mao himself failed.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago

I think you latched too hard onto the “ideology shopping” bit. Maoism definitely has as a central piece “success = correct” which it fails. What I said addresses how that’s depressing.

[–] durduramayacaklar@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Every geography and country has its own flaws. So instead of asking why Maoism or Leninism no longer works, we should focus on updating our theory not just our practice. So, I believe we will see more *ism in the future to get to communist society

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Updating our theory in what respect? First you must show a deficiency that calls for update. I don’t deny the possibility of new “isms,” but again and again I read compelling revisions and then learn that Marx already covered the subject and either criticized the tendency well or gave a similar but less idealist take. That’s not to say Marx was never wrong, but rarely do I see an argument that actually proves the need to leave Marx behind in some respect.

[–] durduramayacaklar@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You’re absolutely right. What I meant by updating is like leninism an ideology based on Marxism not revisionism. I should have said based on Marxism my mistake comrade

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago

An “ism” seems to get created whenever a leader’s pragmatic activity brings them a following. As you recognize, this following then determines that the leader is right all the time and these “discoveries” apply many places. This may happen again, and even good tactics may be followed, but I don’t think the role of theory is dreaming something new. We should be reading Marx and criticizing existing modernizations to determine what errors we’re making.