this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
1130 points (88.4% liked)

Memes

49349 readers
1421 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 
(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] huppakee@lemm.ee 20 points 4 days ago (22 children)

This might get a lot of down votes but I want to say I don't think it's fair to blame the soldiers in the field for the choices of the decision makers in the office. Those horrible events were unwanted 'byproducts' of the goal of men with evil plans, they were not veterans going off-book. In other words, these veterans did what was asked of them. I'm not saying they didn't do some very bad things, but they aren't the people that should be 'thanked'.

[–] agelord@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Ahh, yes, the mindless drone argument.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 19 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Ah, the Nuremberg defense. 😢

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (12 children)

In the aftermath of World War II, Carl Jaspers formulated in Die Schuldfrage that there are four types of guilt (/responsibility). Criminal guilt, political guilt, moral guilt, and metaphysical guilt. It is a great distinction in general. Yes, political leaders bear a different kind of guilt for the actions than the soldiers, but acting on clearly morally wrong commands do not obliterate guilt from the soldiers. Just like everyone who basically didn't give their life in pursuit of the good and the right bears some metaphysical guilt for what is happening in the world.

Edit: I realized that, since I am neither an English native, nor very articulate in philosophy or politics, I would rather ask perplexity for a summary. So here it is: Karl Jaspers, in his work The Question of German Guilt, distinguishes four categories of guilt and assigns specific instances to each:

  1. Criminal Guilt:

    Definition: Violations of objectively provable laws that are legally considered crimes.

    Instance: The court, which determines the facts and applies the laws in formal proceedings.

  2. Political Guilt:

    Definition: Arises from the actions of statesmen and the shared responsibility of every citizen for the government of their state.

    Instance: The power and will of the victor, especially after a lost war, as in the case of Germany after World War II.

  3. Moral Guilt:

    Definition: Refers to individual actions for which every person is morally responsible, even if carried out under orders.

    Instance: One’s own conscience and dialogue with others.

  4. Metaphysical Guilt:

    Definition: A shared responsibility for all injustice in the world, based on human solidarity. It arises when one does not do everything possible to prevent injustice.

    Instance: God or transcendence.

Jaspers emphasizes that this differentiation is meant to avoid simplistic or generalized accusations of guilt. He rejects the idea of collective criminal or moral guilt for an entire people, arguing that guilt is always individual.

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] veniasilente@lemm.ee 9 points 3 days ago

In other words, these veterans did what was asked of them.

They could just have not.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 49 points 4 days ago (44 children)

ACAB includes the troops. Going to foreign countries to shoot brown kids doesn't make you any less of a bastard than doing it at home.

load more comments (44 replies)

No no no. None of this should be acknowledged, because Whataboutism.

[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 41 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Why would we celebrate LOSERS and SUCKERS?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] psyop@crazypeople.online 40 points 5 days ago (3 children)

When's the next war on bud light rainbow cans? 🀑🫑🀑

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: β€Ή prev next β€Ί