fakir

Hey, I've argued this exact stance with my Marxist brothers a few times here and here. They seem sure of revolution and against market socialism. Anyways, I've created a community for us to talk more about it here - Collective Cake

And what a coincidence today being a Collective Cake day!

Haha, and if you look in the diametrically opposite direction, you will find God! And clearly, God will kick the Devil's ass, always has and always will! PS: this coming from an anti-thiest

Exactly, that's another thing that I've learned recently - don't lose your shit when things seem to be falling apart - one, it's a system much bigger than your individual control, but two, and more importantly, those things tend to self correct for the better, like action-reaction, like a wave, or ying-yang and duality of life. It's quite liberating to see this way at the bigger picture.

Climate change, wealth inequality, fascism, war, the global epidemic of loneliness & depression aren't distinct disconnected problems. They are a singular globally connected problem. And it requires a singular globally connected solution. We'd need a few things -

1. We will need to take care of all human essential services like healthcare, education, food, banking, technology etc. Only things that add positive value to society. We can have a singular globally coordinated effort.
2. We will need an economic engine, so as to provide a UBI for all, reasonably paid based on cost of living. To generate income we can sell our products & services at a markup to non-union members.
3. We will need an army because the enemy has one and we need to defend ourselves.
4. Decentralization is also a defence mechanism. Don't build 1 giant bank, build a million connected credit unions all utilizing the same backend tools & processes. It's such a nice defense mechanism that we might even be able to skip the army altogether, which bank are you gonna breakup when we can open a hundred more tomorrow.

Haha, humans taking over AI jobs!

That business is just constant problem solving one after another and going through as many to-dos as you can day after day, while still maintaining sanity. That is persistence.

That business is always a house of cards that can fall apart anytime and so you must always keep your eyes on it. That is exhausting worry.

That business is so hard, you'll be tempted to quit everyday. To overcome that urge to quit you'll need a much bigger purpose or mission that drives you. Purpose brings determination.

That business really is about value creation for the entire ecosystem (customers, employees, vendors) and that a business is not above that ecosystem. Wall St & American capitalism is short sighted because it demands you pass lesser and lesser value to that ecosystem quarter after quarter, and that is like a slow axe to your own foot.

That most modern economic theory taught in business schools and used by execs in the biggest companies worldwide is all flawed because it fully relies on capturing and optimizing all sorts of business data, but the truth is that it is impossible to capture real world in data.

Everyone alive right now must have ancestors who very literally did live & survive though the stone age and the ages before and after that. Wish I knew what my ancestors did to survive stone age, or better still if I could like watch them in a time lapse video. I guess I might have run away from stone lifting to go be a shepherd or something.

There is no evidence of cooperatives being capable of out-competing the megacorps of today in a system already controlled by megacorps. There is no growing systemic pressure for cooperatives to overwhelm megacorps, only further proletarianizaton and social stratification.

Nature tells you the power of cooperative working, look at ants, bees, fungi. The fediverse is a smack in the face of Reddit, Unix in the face of Microsoft. These things only grow, never shrink. There are more people in credit unions in America than any private bank. There are so many cooperatives in the agriculture space you wouldn't believe. Look up mondragon, the largest cooperative employer with over 70k employees. Look up IFFCO, the largest agriculture cooperative connecting farmers in India, which has a revenue of over $7 billion/yr. These are behemoths, a force for good. They are not being overwhelmed by megacorps, rather they overwhelm the megacorps.

That sounds lovely to me!

Because their followers seem to accept everything they say as truth. It has been working.

You are correct, we are already in Capitalism. Replacing the entirety of the firms within a Capitalist system with cooperatives is a monstrous task without first overthrowing the State to help facilitate things

Disagree, cooperatives already exist. Everywhere! We just need more and more, one at a time. Bigger and stronger! Where is the need to overthrow the state?

Secondly, I do not want to start over. I want revolution, then a nationalization of key industries like the banks, railroads, airlines, energy sector, raw materials, telecommunication, etc. Not a replacement, but a nationalization. Additionally, large firms will be nationalized, ie Amazon, Google, Meta, Nvidia, other huge firms that dominate the private sector will be folded into the public.

And I want the same level of nationalization as you here, but you are still asking for a revolution as a starting point, i.e erase the entire drawing board and start over.

What is a free market and how will it cease to exist? I can still make any cake and sell it to anyone at whatever price. Free market still exists.