BanMeFromPosting comments on A capitalism truth pill people still need to swallow

[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (22 children)

Your point does not stand at all, you shared an anecdote. There is no empirical data supporting your claim, in actuality the majority of the people who lived during the time of the Soviet Union say they miss it and life was better in the USSR.

Gonna steal @yogthos@lemmygrad.ml comment:

A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.
The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism". The survey focused on the respondents' views on the transition "from socialism to capitalism", and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito. The standard of living during Tito's rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as "more or less the same". 45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent choosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.
75% of Russians have expressed increasingly positive opinions about the Soviet Union over the years. Only a small portion of those surveyed said they had negative associations with the Soviet Union. The economic deficit, long lines and coupons were named by 4% of respondents each, while the Iron Curtain, economic stagnation and political repressions were named by 1% each, the Levada Center said.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -3 points 1 week ago (21 children)

You didn't address any of my questions. If this stuff is so popular, why isn't it used more? How do you propose to overcome the objections of the vast majority of Americans and Europeans, including the rich and powerful?

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (20 children)

Finish your argument before you start a new one sweetie. You made a claim that you could not back up, the available empirical data opposes your claim, and yet you declare your point still stands. It does not.
In a proper civil dialogue we conclude disagreements before moving on to the next wall you've thrown shit at to see what sticks. So if you want to ask questions and get them answered, then you gotta show yourself to be acting in good faith as well. This requires behaving like a normal person and not some little weasely booger who cannot admit fault or themself answer any questions - In your case you gotta either admit you were wrong, provide reasonable critique for why the data is not applicable (this of course requires you read the texts you have been given, something I doubt you will ever do, you types rarely even make it past the headline and even then it is typically only a brief skim, feverishly hunting for some sentence you can misinterpret) or provide sufficient empirical data that can help create a working hypothesis alongside the other data.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -3 points 1 week ago (19 children)

Ok great some people affected liked it. You win and have a huge penis.

That does not mean it is popular here and I still don't see a way forward for it.

Until we all see that, we will generally bounce between unregulated capitalism and (what I favor) which is well regulated capitalism with worker and environmental protections.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago

we will generally bounce between unregulated capitalism and (what I favor) which is well regulated capitalism with worker and environmental protections.

If only that were true. Unfortunately the next stop on your train is fascism not better regulation.

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (17 children)

ok you win

There is nothing to win, we are having a discussion and you are behaving like an angry toddler, and I am asking that you behave normal in order for this conversation to be gainful. If you are not interested in dialogue, why engage in it? Just don't respond instead of wasting everyones time.

That does not mean it is popular here

Factually untrue, as the data shows. Furthermore if you think "I win" then that does mean it is popular there. Why do you lie?

Until we all see that, we will generally bounce between unregulated capitalism and (what I favor) which is well regulated capitalism with worker and environmental protections.

Completely vibes-based statement with nothing supporting it. Read Reform or Revolution.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 1 week ago (12 children)

https://lemmy.world/comment/26373832

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (11 children)

What do you feel this link provides?

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Evidence of the impracticality of what you propose.

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (9 children)

So far the only thing I have proposed is that you are wrong about your point still standing and I have supplied additional evidence to supply this. You keep trying to argue against something else because you have a weak and prideful mind, too fragile to handle being wrong.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 1 week ago (8 children)

So still answer for "how will this make a political impact in the US?" But lots of ad hominem attacks.

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[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago (4 children)

God damn, Reddit shitlibs really do think that "ad-hominem" is just a magic incantation to win debates they were otherwise eating shit in

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Ironically your comment here is also an ad hominem attack. For the 9th time, does anyone have a practical plan for getting these political plans implemented? Please do not answer with anything but that.

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[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Oh my fucking god, please learn what terms actually mean before regurgitating them everywhere

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 6 days ago (1 child)

Still no plans I see

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[+] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago

[removed by mod]

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

I have actually made 0 ad hominem so far. You are confusing "insults" with "attacking the argument through the character". Of course you wouldn't know that, halfwit that you are.

The rebuttal has been presented, you have failed to engage with it, you are the one halting discussion.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 6 days ago (1 child)

Ok still no plans though.

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 1 point 6 days ago

Well I would love to move on to another discussion and point out the many faulty assumptions and assertions you have made there, but to do that we have to do what I have described many times already. You seem to struggle with reason and civil discussion, consider looking inwards to deal with you having a hard time with simple challenges to your beliefs and a pattern of changing the topic instead of engaging with the text at hand, when that text refutes your pointless vibes-based anecdotal evidence.

You are making a claim but you have no proof for it. What hasn't worked "here" whereever that is? If you are talking about socialism in the east block it very clearly did work. It was massively popular, improved the living conditions for the population and only fell after decades of capitalist subversion and even then it had to be done through a military coup. And, as the evidence available shows, it is missed today.
Elsewhere it is still massively succesful to this very day.
So I dont understand your question, it seems to be based on a completely fallacious understanding of the world.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 1 week ago (3 children)

That does not mean it is popular here

Factually untrue, as the data shows.

Then why don't we have this as our current form of government? How to you propose to get everyone to buy in to this in the US? If you can't reduce it to practice, this is just impractical Internet bullshit talk.

I assert that that's all this will ever be. We have zero chance of this being implemented here.

We do however have a chance of getting back to regulated capitalism. All we need is a new TR.

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Then why don’t we have this as our current form of government? How to you propose to get everyone to buy in to this in the US? If you can’t reduce it to practice, this is just impractical Internet bullshit talk.

Finish your argument before you start a new one sweetie.

For us to be able to go deeper into discussion we need to first agree on the facts that form the basis of the discussion, which we do not at the moment. You have to either accept that your point was wrong and integrate that acceptance into your line of argument or argue for your point being correct - This is done by either supplying sufficient empirical data that helps create some synthesis with the rest of the data or you go through the given data and explain why it is faulty or insufficient as a basis for a rebuttal.

As the rest of the comment you are responding to explains, you have still yet to do this.

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[–] bloviate@lemmus.org -1 points 1 week ago (1 child)

Finish your argument before you start a new one sweetie.

This is condescending and intended to distract from the main point by being inflammatory You keep dodging because you don't have an answer.

You have to either accept that your point was wrong and integrate that acceptance into your line of argument or argue for your point being correct - This is done by either supplying sufficient empirical data that helps create some synthesis with the rest of the data or you go through the given data and explain why it is faulty or insufficient as a basis for a rebuttal.

As the rest of the comment you are responding to explains, you have still yet to do this.

Nah. It can't be popular enough to work here. If it could, you would have said how. You're just diverting from that fact because you don't actually have an answer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Lmk when you want to actually make progress on anything regarding this topic and not just nitpick tediously. The main point is that there's no way to get those political systems to fly here because people don't want them currently.

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[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

this is condescending

Correct, you are behaving poorly so I am treating you in kind

Distracting from the main point

The only one distracting from anything is you. You are the one who seeks discussion and then flees at challenge, I am holding you to it.

You are now attempting to give yourself a plausible exit where you can save face, which is very funny since the only audience is you and me, yet your ego can still not handle it. Sadly the exit-strategy you've sought is ill-fitting, since both you and I are aware that you are the one who has been avoiding discussion, instead seeking to change the subject at every turn. It is no surprise that you would do something like this, you seem to be a fucking idiot.
I still hold out hope you will be able to do the bare minimum, but I cannot be disappointed by you anymore.

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