The day should start at like... Equatorial dawn or something.

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[+] [S] -6 points 9 months ago (19 children)

I hate it, because each calendar day has two half-nights.

Like... So if you say "the night of the 5th" is that before dawn or after dusk?

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If you say night of the 5th, that will mean the time from sunset to midnight on the fifth.

    After that it's morning/pre-dawn of the 6th.

    This isn't new or controversial.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It's night from sunset until dawn. And if someone said "in the morning" I would never interpret that as meaning before dawn.

    It is controversial, because one definition of "morning" is dawn to noon and another is midnight to noon. And saying "night" is "sunset to midnight" is also new because you just came up with that.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago

    Morning and predawn are typically the times immediately surrounding dawn, not the time immediately after midnight.

    If you told me "were going out to take photos at predawn" I'd assume you meant blue hour photos, not moonlit photos.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    i've never seen someone who takes that as "before dawn". night is after dusk, midnight's before dawn

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Right.

    But 00:01 is clearly still night. Night is typically considered from dusk til dawn.

    So if we say "the night of the 2nd" then that's from dusk til 23:59:59 of the 2nd.
    Which is then followed by night that isn't the night of the 2nd nor night of the 3rd.
    And I'd say "before dawn" or "early morning" of the 3rd would be problematically ambiguous.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    "early morning of the 3rd" and "before dawn of the 3rd" definitely would not become 00:00—8:00 of the 2nd, and that's all that matters imo for the practical utility of delineating borders between days in the first place. i also like organizing things but i see absolutely no way to define "organized" for this lol

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago*

    I don't understand what you mean here, why would "before dawn of the 3rd" become 00:00-08:00 of the 2nd?

    I'm saying to shift what 00:00 is, to align with dawn(ish), so that a calendar day is comprised of a contiguous day followed by a contiguous night, which is how we typically intuit about days anyways when we aren't talking about time.

    I know there are practical modern issues with this, but this is a silly post about how unsatisfying it is for the day to start at midnight

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You have a choice in life. You can accept certain things you cannot change. This one, you won't change. Even if you spearheaded a popular movement I doubt you'll get it changed. Everybody hates DLST and we still can't get rid of it.

    So I suggest you adapt your language. You don't talk about the night of the fifth but the night from the fifth to the sixth. Three additional syllables in this case and the confusion evaporates quickly. You're focusing on the perceived problem and not on the solution. If you do resolutions for the new year, maybe add that point to your list.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (9 children)

    The night of the 5th would be sometime after 4pm on the 5th.

    What is confusing about this?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (8 children)

    Right, but then how do you refer to before 5am on the 5th?
    That's not morning, and it's not the night of the 4th. It's awkward.

    But more importantly, it's ugly. It's not how we intuit about days. It's unsatisfying.

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  • I've heard people say "the wee hours of the night" to refer to time between midnight and dawn.

    I think one of the reasons that there's not a good word for that in English is because it's the time anyone is least likely to be awake, so there's not much reason to talk about it. And then by the time humans built enough lights to do something worthwhile at 02:00, we also had clocks and started to describe that period in reference to clock readings.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    5 am is the morning. This isn't negotiable. You're wrong.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    00:01 isn't the morning. This isn't negotiable. You're wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children)

    I think you're perhaps like... Misunderstood or poorly educated here.

    A.M. doesn't meant "morning".

    It means "ante meridian" which is Latin for "before noon".

    It's not up for debate. You're very thoroughly wrong.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    The definition of "AM" didn't factor into anything I said, though.

    You said "5am is morning", but i said "before 5am" as in the entire time from midnight to 5am. I reminded you that "before 5am includes 00:01" which very much isn't what people would consider to be morning.

    This is a silly post about timekeeping, I'm not sure why you're being rude about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    5 am is morning. Because the sun is up like 40 percent of places 40 percent of the time. But that's not your argument.

    Your argument is that midnight makes no sense.

    You're wrong. 12 noon is noon. 12 midnight is MIDDLE of the night.

    Noon is when the sun is on average the highest.

    Midnight is on average when the sun is the lowest.

    None of this is inconsistent. It makes perfect sense. Your inability to grasp this is a personal issue.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Before you even:

    "but middle of the night means that 1 am is still night but am means morning"

    No, you're an idiot and wrong.

    AM doesn't mean morning. It means before noon.

    Again. It is perfectly consistent.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago

    Why do you keep bringing "am" into this.
    again none of what I said has anything to do with the definition of "am"

    And why are you being so rude on what is clearly a silly thread?

    My "argument" isn't that "midnight itself makes no sense"
    My argument is that having the day start at midnight isn't how people intuitively conceptualize a day, and wouldn't it be nice if the calendar day more closely resembled our intuition about days (a contiguous daytime period followed by a contiguous nighttime period).

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