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They can't answer this (europe.pub)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 11 points 8 months ago* (20 children)

Surpressed wages. Immigration is just a consequence of the bourgeoisie war against the proletariat. It works double for them because they can blame the immigrants that they bring in for people's problems and can use them to make those problems worse.

You aren't going to find pro immigrant leftists. You will find humanitarian leftists that think the people the right bring here should be treated like people.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    even by that logic, it is not the immigrant who is suppressing wages, but the capitalist. and he is so giddy about cunts blaming the immigrant with suppressed wages.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    That's what I said.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (10 children)

    sorry,if I misread it.

    Also a slight tangent, leftists don't believe in borders, so "immigrant" is a nonsensical term.

    why is someone considered less of they aren't living in their birth country??? such an irrational hierarchies.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (7 children)

    Borders have a purpose, if we try removing them then we just become colonizers.

    Rather than removing borders it's better to invest to bring up the status of their home country.

    Why should someone have to leave home to be more?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (6 children)

    borders should be nothing more than tools to help manage regions, not as restrictions for people, no one should need to move, but everyone should be able to do so if they wish to.

    borders are literally a colonial invention.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    You will find your lack of fight against oppressers just more readily allows them to oppress.

    Borders aren't a colonial invention, your reference is to the idea that common people are subject to borders. Lords had their realms, and even with that common people had security checks. Let us not forget the military checkpoints that Guan Yu was stopped at as he fled Cao Cao. Historical accuracy of the account aside; it shows military checkpoints in traveling roads.

    If you want to say Rome was colonialist then I'd agree but you're going back three thousand years and refusing to acknowledge a system to prevent military incursions.

    Regular people would get their wares checked and weapons confiscated when entering cities. Sometimes their wares would be held until they leave or they'd be denied entry.

    The biggest change which you seem confused on is the scale of the states involved. Going from city state to country is more of a logistical hurdle we overcame than a colonialist expansion.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    modern borders, as a fence where people aren't allowed to cross is a colonial invention.

    and honestly, arguing semantics and history is a fun tangent but not what I care about.

    everyone should be free to travel and live/work/study wherever they please. and an immigrant and a local should have the same rights and opportunities.

    that is separate to the point of "we should make their places better so they don't need to migrate" which I agree, but need to note the western chauvinism in that statements. it would be enough if the west stopped messing and exploiting those nations, forcing them into poverty.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    modern borders, as a fence where people aren’t allowed to cross is a colonial invention.

    No, they're not. They exist among countries that were historically colonized or were historically colonizers. Obviously.

    That's not a "semantic" argument, it's understanding a basic and obvious fact.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (1 child)

    leftists don’t believe in borders

    Uh yeah, we do. Every country on Earth recognizes borders. That doesn't mean a person in one country is valued less than a person in another.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    It's a little more complex than this. Wage suppression does occur but only at the very bottom strata of employment, specifically those producing use-values that are directly consumed within the country where the labour is performed. Employment in industries producing globalised/exported commodities tend not to see wage suppression and often sees an opposite effect as the higher concentration of highly-qualified labour attracts more investment. All this is to say that the overall effect doesn't tell the whole story, and different sections of the bourgeois may have differing reasons for supporting/opposing immigration.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    dude, HB-1 visas lower wages in the tech sector, and there is a reason big tech corpos are so desperate to increase how many there are, so they can bring immigrant programmers to the USA and pay them 50K a year instead of a 150K a year a American programmer might get. They can also exploit them to work 80hour weeks or more because the visa is dependent on the companies sponsorship.

    It's also a reason the AMA doesn't let foreign doctors practice in America w/o a crazy certification process that takes years to go through. They know it would lower physicians wages if doctors for eastern Europe could immigrate here and would glad to work for 80K.

    Nobody likes to talk about these things because they are politically incorrect. Bring them up and people will tell you you're being an asshole.

    Immigration is a complex problem at all bands of the economic spectrum. On the rich end, countries have national programs to actively court rich people to become citizens and expedite the process... because they want their money and assets in country. And on the flip side, nobody wants poor people because they are economic burdens who often use a lot of public resources.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Correct, but this more a case of qualifications chasing investment rather than vice-versa. It's not the kind of immigration that tends to get 'debated' in terms of how much of it should be allowed, though the H1Bs were kind of in the news cycle a few months ago.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (2 children)

    I live in a big tech city and it's a very hot topic here on both sides. A lot of HB-1 visa holders are basically ghettoized in their companies and socially from the 'tech bro' workers who are from upper middle class white/asian families. They do a lot of the same work, but their wage differential is like a factor of 2-4x for the same job.

    But true that it's not a big deal nationally, which seems to mostly focus on latin american emigration of uneducated low wage laborers.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    That's fair. I didn't realise how socially divisive the H1Bs were, though it makes sense now that you mention it.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago*

    one of my friends rents out his spare bedroom to hb-1 holders and people flip out at him for it. he's just a nice guy looking to give someone a leg up in this shitty world. and the people who shit on him the most are the ones who got houses paid for by their parents.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    That’s not an immigration issue, it’s worker exploitation. We allow companies to hire unprotected workers and exploit their situation without consequences.

    And yes, same is true of h1-b. As written, it theoretically would not reduce wages, but in reality it does because employers exploit their situation without system and the “trapped worker.

    In both cases, wjilynarenwenletting corps get away with this?

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