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Framework proved repairable laptops can work, but almost nobody is willing to buy one (www.xda-developers.com)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[+] 16 points 3 months ago (40 children)
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  • [–] 71 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (23 children)

    And I don't see why that is a problem. If a company is doing good thing and sustaining itself, I don't see why they will need to be the next dell, hp, or lenovo. That feels like the toxicity of "endless growth" in the capitalistic view of the world.

    Not to mention in most of the place I go to, these are the most popular laptops only behind macbooks. In many situations, they are even more popular than macbooks.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (22 children)

    I have never seen a Framework in the wild, however I applaud their approach, but even when taking repair costs in consideration, Frameworks are more expensive than simply upgrading to a newer laptop and using the old laptop for some other purpose. I can't imagine with the rampocalypse that they easily survive, but I hope they do, I wish other manufacturers would make repair a higher priority.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    My anecdotal experience - my Asus gaming laptop died about 6 months ago. with a lot of trouble shooting, I determined it was most likely the mobo. I decided to go with a framework, and was able to bring over my hard drive and ram, saving me like $400.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    You also likely don't need to reinstall/resetup everything, which is absolutely painful.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Getting the framework driver's was painful. I needed to download them over wifi, but wifi wasn't working because it needed the driver. okay, download on another computer and install via USB, nope. USB drivers aren't working either. I ended up spotting my hard drive into my desktop, downloading the drivers that way, and then moving it back to the framework laptop to install.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (2 children)

    If you have a desktop with internet connection, maybe a USB stick would suffice?

    There is also USB tethering from a phone that could work.

    I am not defending framework. They should try to do better (maybe windows is the bottleneck? not sure). Just offering solutions to people who might encounter this problem later.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    I've literally never had a computer need drivers to make basic USB work in the past probably 20 years. I had a bleeding edge ai 350 framework right even when it came out. Linux was a little flaky with my sound but everything else worked. Same in Windows. Maybe I needed Wi-Fi drivers, don't recall, but I know USB worked without any. I'm really curious how you needed USB drivers of all things genuinely. I mean you installed the OS presumably from a thumb drive so how would that not work in the same os after installing? Lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It may be a separate issue to drivers, because I have this other issue where after waking up from sleep, I have to either reboot or physically remove the USB port and plug it back in to make the USB work. I've disabled "allow windows to put this device to sleep" for every single USB titled thing in device manager, so I'm not sure what the issue is. I plan on installing a small linux partition at some point to play around and see if I like it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    If you really moved the hard drive from one laptop to another without reinstalling the OS, that's probably going to cause issues. It'll "work" seemingly but it's gonna be messy like this. You're going to spend more time hunting weird shit than you would just doing a reinstall imo.

    I'd backup what you need to and start over or you're probably going to keep having strange issues.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

    I would like to offer a slightly different perspective: I believe framework is uniquely positioned to survive the ram apocalypse (at least respect to their scale).

    In the sense that, framework user can keep purchasing and upgrading components, like battery, screen, speaker, hinge, expansion card, without needing to worry about ram prices, and framework can profit from these component without needing to subsidize ram prices.

    That being said, as a smaller company, they certainly don't have the same amount of bargaining power on ram as most big players, and the launch of LPCAM2 is a bit risky, since that pervents people from purchasing new ram/board/laptops given the current ram prices.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    Does a new generation mobo/chip combination generally still support the older generation of RAM?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Frameworks are more expensive than simply upgrading to a newer laptop

    They're absolutely not.

    can't imagine with the rampocalypse that they easily survive

    Being that you can and have been able to buy them without RAM or storage, I'd say they're better-positioned than anyone.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Umm, not sure if you have seen Framework's prices.

    The current 13in with a weak intel processor is $1850 (and you can't get it until October). To buy an equivalent Dell? Around $1,000 and you can get it tomorrow. The upgrade cost for the motherboard (say you want to switch to AMD), will cost you $900. For that $3k you can buy 3 Dells all with ram and storage.

    And no, they aren't positioned well without RAM as their newer ones use LPCAMM2. You don't have that just lying around.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    The current 13in with a weak intel processor is $1850

    Is not at all a weak processor. Intel currently makes the best x86 mobile processors on the market. The entire point is that you don't have to buy a whole new computer when you upgrade. You just get an updated motherboard and slap it into the existing chassis.

    The upgrade cost for the motherboard (say you want to switch to AMD), will cost you $900. For that $3k you can buy 3 Dells all with ram and storage.

    And all 3 will be outdated when it comes time to upgrade. And they'll all be shittier than the Framework.

    they aren't positioned well without RAM as their newer ones use LPCAMM2

    That is 1 of 5 computers they sell.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Umm that intel processor is the weakest of the bunch. The i9 version you can't even buy from Framework currently. I get the homerism for Framework, but I guarantee you that they will be out of business within 5 years.

    I don't think you get the point. To upgrade a Framework, even if you are able to move the ram and SSD over, you literally can get an equivalent laptop from another manufacturer with new RAM, SSD and the screen, battery and everything else, and still use the old laptop. With Framework, you move parts over and slowly upgrade. It's not sustainable at the current costing for anyone except for people who are very into home repair.

    Framework is moving all over their laptops to LPCAMM2 because the newer platforms require it for faster RAM, the alternative would be soldered on RAM which defeats the entire purpose of Framework, as you wouldn't be able to 'upgrade' your laptop or repair it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Umm that intel processor is the weakest of the bunch

    Brother, what Intel processor are you talking about? They sell the latest gen of processors, which are the best you can buy.

    guarantee you that they will be out of business within 5 years.

    LOL based on what? They sell more computers than they can produce.

    you literally can get an equivalent laptop from another manufacturer with new RAM, SSD and the screen, battery and everything else, and still use the old laptop

    For a lot more money, yes. I don't think you get it. You can just upgrade the motherboard. You don't need to replace anything else. You can upgrade the display, you can upgrade the RAM, you can actually repair the battery, the keyboard, the trackpad, etc. etc.

    the alternative would be soldered on RAM

    ...nope? Not correct. They can continue using regular old SODIMM RAM like they already are in the FW13. Don't know where you're getting this from.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    That is just plain not true. If you are a enthusiast and know where to look then you definitely can find better deal than framework, but getting a dell (or even better dell?) for half of the price is simple not true.

    On Dell website https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-14-laptop/spd/xps-da14260-laptop, a core ultra 7 358H with 32GB Ram and 1TB SDD is 2749$ with no touch screen and a 2K display and windows Home.

    On framework website https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-intel-ultra-3/configuration/new, the same processor, ram, storage, with 2.8k touch screen, plus windows pro cost 2299$

    Framework is cheaper than dell if you don't try to find deals or buy older models.

    If you buy older models, then framework don't need to replace ram, I can upgrade my laptop to kitted out ryzen AI 9 for only 849$, https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0009 with my existing 64GB of ram. I don't think you can get any laptop close to that quality with this price.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    It's very true. You recognize that Dell always runs discounts and the only people paying full price would be corporations or ignorant people such as yourself? Literally Dell is running a discount to bring the price down to $1,300. Wild how price inefficient Framework is, for something you can't get until at least October, when every other manufacturer you can get now.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    Why does everything need to cater to the average consumer? The average consumer is a fucking idiot, especially when it comes to technology. They don't need to sell to everyone, they just need to sell enough to keep their company running and their people paid.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    I feel this way about spicy things. Everything "hot" is just hot to the average schmuck from the Midwest. Anything spicier than that gets dumbed down to become that (like taco bell Diablo sauce) or becomes hard to find.

    I really enjoyed when that Buldak 2x spicy chicken raman "challenge" became a thing, because that's some great tasting raman and more in line with the normal amount of spicy I like to eat. Now I'm back to having to just order it online again.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    In my part of the world 2x is weak, the challenges were doing 3x 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    As an average schmuck from the Midwest. I'm sorry our weak tastebuds are fucking up your options.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    It's not your fault. The taco bell one really tucked me off, though. The first summer it was out was a limited time thing. It was actually a bit spicy. A lot more spicy than anything else a fast food chain had.

    But then when they brought it back permanently it wasn't half as spicy as it was. Taco Bell has like 5 fucking bland ass sauces now, and three of them taste about the same. What's the damned point? FU taco bell. You could have left me with at least one option besides all your ketchup with tobacco sauce mixed in. No wonder I've only been there like 4 times in the last year.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I remember thinking the diablo one was pretty hot for my taste but now it's the one I go with. I didn't know they changed it, I thought I might have developed some tolerance lol. It's gotten way too expensive for what it is anyway.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Yeah. They buy cheaper stuff, and charge more for it. I can't stand the taste of their trash burrito shells they went to. Then, they charge twice as much for just a bean burrito and give you half the filling, even though it's just super cheap refried beans.

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