▲ 411 ▼ German police read Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp messages without breaking encryption (cybernews.com) submitted 4 weeks ago* by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/technology@lemmy.world 114 comments fedilink hide all child comments cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/71321898 Netzpoltik details that police are able to gain access in this way either through physical access to someone’s phone or by intercepting verification codes via a state-sanctioned phishing attack or intercepting SMS messages via telephone surveillance
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 4 weeks ago (9 children) Signal does all that already permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (8 children) signal has a closed source server that can't be audited. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (7 children) https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server That changed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago (6 children) what does it need a database for? simplex is literally a message broker. no data remains on the server. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (4 children) Signal doesn't keep messages either. Do you know what they can serve FBI every time they ask? Nothing but number at first seen date. They don't have your metadata. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent [–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago Because sometimes, people are not online 24/7 and messages still need to reach them when possible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (8 children) signal has a closed source server that can't be audited. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (7 children) https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server That changed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago (6 children) what does it need a database for? simplex is literally a message broker. no data remains on the server. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (4 children) Signal doesn't keep messages either. Do you know what they can serve FBI every time they ask? Nothing but number at first seen date. They don't have your metadata. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent [–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago Because sometimes, people are not online 24/7 and messages still need to reach them when possible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (7 children) https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server That changed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago (6 children) what does it need a database for? simplex is literally a message broker. no data remains on the server. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (4 children) Signal doesn't keep messages either. Do you know what they can serve FBI every time they ask? Nothing but number at first seen date. They don't have your metadata. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent [–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago Because sometimes, people are not online 24/7 and messages still need to reach them when possible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago (6 children) what does it need a database for? simplex is literally a message broker. no data remains on the server. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (4 children) Signal doesn't keep messages either. Do you know what they can serve FBI every time they ask? Nothing but number at first seen date. They don't have your metadata. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent [–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago Because sometimes, people are not online 24/7 and messages still need to reach them when possible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 1 point 4 weeks ago (4 children) Signal doesn't keep messages either. Do you know what they can serve FBI every time they ask? Nothing but number at first seen date. They don't have your metadata. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago (3 children) then why does it have a database? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children) Here's what he documentation says; Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days. ... Or wait... Oops, that was from Simplex, who has a database, that didn't come from Signal's documentation https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child) cherry picking. By default, routers do not retain access logs, and permanently delete messages and queues when requested. Messages persist in memory or in a database until they cross a threshold of time, typically on the order of days.[0] There is still a risk that a router maliciously records all queues and messages (even though encrypted) sent via the same transport connection to gain a partial knowledge of the user's communications graph and other meta-data. what this means is don't blindly trust a random public router. if you host your own router, you can set the threshold to hours or seconds. you can also ensure that your router isn't maliciously storing records. simplex uses an in-memory queue to store messages for delivery. if the server was extracted for legal measures, this means the messages are erased and difficult if not impossible to collect. for signal, they are written to disk. this means there is evidence of communications between users. even if you host your own signal server, it will be there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub -1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) Liar You're claiming Signal does these things when it doesn't, and claim Simplex doesn't do what's in the documentation By the way, the Simplex CEO supports nazis permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago Because sometimes, people are not online 24/7 and messages still need to reach them when possible. permalink fedilink source parent