A federal appellate court ruled last week that Oregon may house trans women inmates in men’s prisons, overturning a lower court’s ruling earlier this year.

The three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals consisted exclusively of Donald Trump appointees. They voted unanimously to overturn an April ruling from U.S. Magistrate Judge Mark D. Clarke ordering the Oregon Department of Corrections to assume that trans women prisoners should be housed in women’s prisons, and then assess individual cases to confirm that placement, not the other way around.

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[–] 42 points 2 weeks ago (40 children)

In that case you should still move that woman to a woman's prison and keep her isolated. She's not a man, she doesn't belong in a man's prison just because she's a sex offender. You don't lose your gender status just because you broke the law.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    As a general point the judge would agree with what you wrote.

    “These reasons and judgment should not be viewed, however, as any kind of blanket determination that a transgender or gender-diverse inmate who is designated as a [dangerous offender] cannot be transferred to an institution that aligns with their gender identity, and that may happen eventually for Ms. Cooper. Each such case will depend on their unique circumstances.”

    Just in this specific circumstance, and at this point in time, the judge assessed and ruled accordingly in this case. My focus of this comment is not to debate the case (your argument has merit) but to highlight the difference in care for the rights of both parties in a similar Canadian trial, though of course not everybody got what they wanted. In the American case, even the states' lawyers were scratching their heads with the unprompted bigotry coming from the judges out of left field.

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  • [+] -18 points 2 weeks ago* (38 children)

    She’s not a man

    According to whom?

    You don’t lose your gender status just because you broke the law

    But this is about sex, not gender. Gender is as relevant as hair color when you can "change" it on the fly.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

    You're literally just a transphobe weirdo. Shut up, loser.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 weeks ago* (11 children)

    A phobia necessitates fear. There is no fear.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

    Phobia means aversion to something, not a fear, it’s just that aversion can translate subjectively as a fear or a hate response. So, yes, you are actively committing to transphobic intention.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    A phobia is a persistent, excessive, unrealistic fear of an object, person, animal, activity, or situation. It is a type of anxiety disorder. A person with a phobia either tries to avoid the thing that triggers the fear, or endures it with great anxiety and distress.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (5 children)

    Those are subjective symptoms/experiences of a phobia, not the actual psychological concept of the phobia. Not everyone has the same phobic responses. There is also the option to learn about, understand, and move past a phobia. Give it a try.

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  • [+] 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Definitions are limited. Read some research papers. Sometimes things are more than a point blank definition, especially when it comes to psychology and things still under active research.

    Regurgitating a singular definition of a word is not an encompassing nor understanding of any broad and highly nuanced subject. You’re entirely ignoring the larger concepts for prescriptivist reasoning. Church rules don’t apply to science, biology, nor psychology.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    No, you are just talented at displaying your lack of education, intellect, and common decency.

    Suffix

    -phobia (noun-forming suffix, uncountable)

    Used to form nouns meaning fear of a specific thing.
    
        e.g. claustrophobia, chemophobia
    
    Used to form nouns meaning hate, dislike, or repression of a specific thing.
    
        e.g. homophobia, xenophobia
    
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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (24 children)

    According to whom?

    The individual.

    this is about sex, not gender.

    According to who?

    Gender is as relevant as hair color when you can "change" it on the fly.

    Gender is easier to define in a legal sense than sex is, especially since the law generally attempts to define sex as a binary when the actual biology is a lot more complicated.

    For example, if we utilize your framework, where would we put intersex people who have committed a crime?

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  • [+] -10 points 2 weeks ago* (23 children)

    According to who?

    The court, obviously. Also, try to reason why prisons are segregated by sex in the first place. It's the genitals that matter, not the presentation or self identification. If you got a dick and balls, you go to male prison.

    where would we put intersex people who have committed a crime

    In solitary 🤣 But really, you go according to your equipment. Dick&balls -> male prison.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Solitary is torture. That's really not funny.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    It's pretty funny, as long as you don't take it too seriously. The smileyface is there to indicate a joke.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (18 children)

    The court, obviously.

    That's not how the court determined its ruling. The judge even specified that

    Also, try to reason why prisons are segregated by sex in the first place. It's the genitals that matter, not the presentation or self identification.

    You do realize bottom surgery exist right? There are also intersex people that are born with both male and female genitalia.

    In solitary

    Oh, so just do crimes against humanity because of how they were born? You didn't answer the question. Which jail would they be sent to to serve their solitary confinement?

    where would we put intersex people who have committed a crime

    But really, you go according to your equipment. Dick&balls -> male prison.

    You might want to educate yourself about intersex conditions before developing and broadcasting your devastatingly ignorant opinions......

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  • [+] -6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (17 children)

    Which jail would they be sent to to serve their solitary confinement?

    If it's solitary, it shouldn't matter. Pick one at random. However, the solitary quip was a joke.

    You do realize bottom surgery exist right?

    Yes. No dick&balls -> female prison.

    intersex conditions

    How many intersex prisoners are there? Ideally they'd have their own special prison just for them.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (16 children)

    So you moved your goal post from sex to purely being concerned about genitals?

    Again, what about intersex people?

    As I originally stated gender is easier to apply within the law than sex is.

    What exactly is the basis of your argument? You do know that people can sexually abuse people regardless of their or their victims sexual anatomy.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 weeks ago* (15 children)

    So you moved your goal post from sex to purely being concerned about genitals?

    Don't get too hung up on definitions. It's practical realities that matter, namely rape. Vagina owners shouldn't be mixed with dick&balls owners.

    Again, what about intersex people?

    I responded on that.

    You do know that people can sexually abuse people regardless of their or their victims sexual anatomy.

    That is entirely true and very sad. However, we should definitely refrain from placing dick&balls owners into vagina-special prisons.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (14 children)

    Don't get too hung up on definitions. It's practical realities that matter, namely rape.

    This whole argument started because you challenged a definition....?

    It's practical realities that matter, namely rape.

    And an individual who presents as female is going to be much safer from sexual assault in a men's prison? You think rape doesn't occur in a women's prison? This isn't about rape for you, it's about punishing and demeaning trans people.

    responded on that.

    No you didn't. You said to throw them in solitary, but did not designate what prison.

    we should definitely refrain from placing dick&balls owners into vagina-special prisons.

    That's not how the prison system is defined. That's not your original argument. You still do not have a an answer for people who do not fit in that binary. You are an idiot.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 weeks ago* (13 children)

    This isn’t about rape for you, it’s about punishing and demeaning trans people.

    That's your assumption. I couldn't actually care less about people deluding themselves, whether its trans or furries or whateverthefuck. Practical realities. A person originally born a woman with a functional artificial penis can rape natural women just the same as a natural man.

    No you didn’t. You said to throw them in solitary, but did not designate what prison.

    Scroll up. I edited the comment a minute before your response.

    You still do not have a an answer for people who do not fit in that binary.

    Literally scroll up.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

    That's your assumption. I couldn't actually care less about people deluding themselves, whether its trans or furries or whateverthefuck.

    Not really an assumption...... You just proved the point.

    Practical realities

    If it was practical you'd be able to state a coherent solution.

    person originally born a woman with a functional artificial penis can rape natural women just the same as a natural man.

    A woman without a functional penis can rape a woman as well..... How does this increase or decrease the chance of rape?

    Scroll up. I edited the comment a minute before your response.

    You didn't address the question, you asked one. You then said ideally there would be an individual prison for just intersex people?

    Why wouldn't we just make individual prisons for every race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or gang affiliation? Its a non answer. The intersex population makes up around a percent of the global population.

    Literally scroll up.

    Non answer. They do not have a separate prison. So which prison do they go to? It's almost like your solutions are not practical or based on reality.

    Also, don't expect to have people reread your shit once you edit them. Take the time to make a coherent argument the first time or respond with a new post.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

    A woman without a functional penis can rape a woman as well

    How common is that, compared to dick&balls raping vagina?

    They do not have a separate prison. So which prison do they go to?

    Lacking a special intersex prison, it'd be decided on a case by case basis, I don't know what you want of me.

    Also, don’t expect to have people reread your shit once you edit them. Take the time to make a coherent argument the first time or respond with a new post.

    Noted

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    How common is that, compared to dick&balls raping vagina?

    Sexual assault is reported at higher rates in women's prison when compared to mens.

    it'd be decided on a case by case basis, I don't know what you want of me.

    By what criteria would the courts determine this on a case by case basis?

    I'm trying to get you to realize how silly your entire premise is, and how it is neither practical nor realistic. Transphobes always believe their prejudice to be practical, but when you actually ask practical questions their beliefs fail to reflect reality.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago* (9 children)

    By what criteria would the courts determine this on a case by case basis?

    I have no idea. What do they do now?

    how silly your entire premise is

    So what's your proposal, desegregate prisons?

    Sexual assault is reported at higher rates in women’s prison when compared to mens.

    That's not what I asked though, is it? And what % of that is dick&balls "women" raping women? If anything, that adds to my point - segregate dick&balls from non-dick&balls.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    I have no idea. What do they do now?

    They go by their self assigned gender.

    So what's your proposal, desegregate prisons?

    My personal opinion would be prison abolition for any non violent crime. My pragmatic view would to go by gender.

    That's not what I asked though, is it?

    I gave you answer more specific to the scenario? Your question has no pertinent application to people being held in detention.

    what % of that is dick&balls "women" raping women?

    What?

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  • [–] -3 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    They go by their self assigned gender.

    So essentially free-for-all? Terrific.

    My personal opinion would be prison abolition for any non violent crime

    What about violent crimes?

    My pragmatic view would to go by gender

    We've already established that gender is about as relevant as hair color.

    What?

    dick&balls “women” aka persons with dick&balls who claim they are women

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    So essentially free-for-all? Terrific.

    I know that you may be fooled, but for most people it's pretty easy to determine if someone has changed their gender for dubious benefits. It's not really a problem.

    What about violent crimes?

    Intense rehabilitation for the vast majority. Indefinite psychiatric care for those who cannot be rehabilitated.

    We've already established that gender is about as relevant as hair color.

    Some fucking moron making a stupid claim is not establishing anything other than some people are idiots.

    “women” aka persons with dick&balls who claim they are women

    What were you attempting to ask?

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago* (5 children)

    for most people it’s pretty easy to determine if someone has changed their gender for dubious benefits

    Who is in charge of making that determination?

    Intense rehabilitation for the vast majority. Indefinite psychiatric care for those who cannot be rehabilitated.

    Full agreement here.

    Some fucking moron making a stupid claim is not establishing anything other than some people are idiots.

    When one can change it on the fly, depending on feelings with zero objectivity, it's irrelevant. Side question, why are you so insistent on name-calling?

    What were you attempting to ask?

    How common is a woman without a functional penis raping a natural woman, compared to dick&balls owner raping vagina owner?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Who is in charge of making that determination?

    If you worked to improve your reading comprehension, I'm sure you could eventually work that out yourself.

    depending on feelings with zero objectivity, it's irrelevant.

    There are plenty of objective ways to confirm gender identity. They do it in sports all the time.

    why are you so insistent on name-calling?

    You are a terrible human being, it's fun to call you a little icel wannabe cuck. See, what I'm implying is that you would love to be a cuck, but are unable too because you can't find a girl who would fuck you in the first place. See it's fun!

    How common is a woman without a functional penis raping a natural woman, compared to dick&balls owner raping vagina owner?

    Not going to waste my time answering something you cannot spend the effort to properly ask. That string of words looks like a LLM was fed nothing but the worst of 4chan.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago* (3 children)

    If you worked to improve your reading comprehension, I’m sure you could eventually work that out yourself.

    "Most people" is not a good answer when incarceration is involved.

    There are plenty of objective ways to confirm gender identity. They do it in sports all the time.

    Do tell.

    You are a terrible human being, it’s fun to call you a little icel wannabe cuck. See, what I’m implying is that you would love to be a cuck, but are unable too because you can’t find a girl who would fuck you in the first place. See it’s fun!

    Have fun I guess, I'm secure enough that I don't really care, just curious.

    Not going to waste my time answering something you cannot spend the effort to properly ask. That string of words looks like a LLM was fed nothing but the worst of 4chan.

    Are you seriously unable to parse the query? It's not that complicated. Try reading one word at a time.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    "Most people" is not a good answer when incarceration is involved.

    Again.... Your reading comprehension skills are showing. You should have phrased your question correctly if you were looking for a specific subject.

    Do tell.

    Hormone levels reflect how long you've been on hrt. Most sports require at least a year or more of hrt to compete.

    Are you seriously unable to parse the query? It's not that complicated. Try reading one word at a time.

    Lol, ask it like a normal person and I might read it again.

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  • [+] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)
  • https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/man-posing-as-transgender-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit-says/5067904/

    In the same article.

    " In a hearing last January on gender equity in jail, Dr. Rachel Golden, a psychologist who specializes in gender-affirming care for Transgender, Gender Non-Conforming, Non-Binary, and Intersex people (TGNCNBI), told lawmakers it would be a mistake to think it is common for men to pose as trans females behind bars. "Fearmongering that one bad actor will pretend to be transgender and therefore create an unsafe environment results in the continued disproportionate targeting of TGNCNBI individuals for harassment and violence," Golden testified. She added that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual violence when they are housed in male facilities. "There is little to no incentive to pretend to be transgender let alone to put in the work to sustain that ruse over time," Golden said. "There is absolutely no evidence that people pretending to be transgender is a common occurrence whereas there is ample evidence supporting the risk of violence and assault to transgender women being housed in a male facility." According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, transgender prisoners are far more likely to face sexual violence than the general population behind bars. A 2011-12 national survey of incarcerated individuals found nearly 16% of transgender inmates in local jails reported being sexually victimized. That compares with just 3% of the entire jail population"

    It appears as though the DOC intentionally told a man who openly claimed he was a heterosexual male to lie about his gender so he could assault women in jail. More than likely as a way to damage the public image of new gender accommodating legislation.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64501436

    This is in the UK....... And it is a story of someone trying to take advantage of gender accomodations and failing to do so. They were never actually transferred to the women's prison.

    https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/washington-inmate-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-cellmate-after-transfer-to-womens-prison-washington-corrections-center-for-women-mozzy-clark-christopher-williams-gender-identity

    This individual isnt said to be lying about their gender identity, they're just a terrible humanbeing. The failing here is that their cell mate made multiple reports to the prison about sexual advances and the facility failed to intervene.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nj-trans-prisoner-impregnated-2-inmates-transferred-mens-facility-rcna38947

    Again, this person is not lying about their gender, nor did they rape anyone. The article specifies that bothe relationships were consensual.

    Hormone levels don't change your prior-built skeletal structure

    Hormones do regulate bone density, though I fail to see why your skeletal structure is pertinent to the conversation. Are you suggesting tall women shouldn't be allowed to be detained with other women?

    while they affect musculature, they don't entirely remove the gains from pre-hrt.

    There aren't enough long term studies to make this conclusion. In the latest study they show mixed results with trans women retaining some strength in certain muscle groups and being weaker in other capabilities and muscle groups compared to their cis gender counterparts.

    For someone who claims they feel sorry for trans people for spending so much time on gender identity, you sure are taking a lot of time hunting down articles about it.

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