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Windows 11 is failing as an operating system (tilvids.com)
submitted 3 days ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

00:46 Sponsor: TuxCare Radar

02:23 Windows 11 is failing right now

05:20 What's the job of an OS?

06:51 Updates break systems. Often.

10:53 You have to adapt to it

15:14 It's highly intrusive

17:44 Debloating tools don't make it good

20:19 Windows fails at being an OS

21:33 Alternatives are better, but not perfect

27:23 Windows is a sales platform, not an OS

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[–] 24 points 3 days ago (41 children)

I know this is a Linux space, and I love Linux but my Windows 11 box runs just fine. I haven't had any problems with it.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    Then you’re lucky. Win11 virtually pushed me to Linux, I was a windows fanboy before.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Windows 10 was the last actual Microsoft OS.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I disagree. For me it was Win 7. And even in retrospective I’d say the last truly good and clean system was XP. I had to use it at work a month ago to troubleshoot a system and was surprised how well designed XP was for its time – and still is tbh

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago

    I think the general consensus is that windows XP was the last clean and well put together microsoft os that's the rounded cleaner version of windows 2000.

    When windows 7 came out I downgraded back to XP, which with the new file system it's nearly impossible to pull off. I can't downgrade anything windows 10 and above and I'd have windows xp partitioned if I could.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    I’m not a fanboy, I just use whatever works

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    This year alone I had to reinstall 3 Windows systems that were failing to work. Then again, my Windows 11 work laptop also seems to work just fine.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    I use MacOS and Win11 every single day. I used Linux for a long time, I still have my CD I got from Canonical with Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake LTS. Naturally, fanboys of all three will talk about each as if it were the obvious choice. IMHO they're all good in their own respective ways. It's a Venn diagram made up of adoption/support, simplicity, and openness.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    I remember those Canonical cd's, they'd let you request dozens at a time and shipped for free.

    Funny story, they shipped them from a place in Switzerland at the time that used to be the address of Sandoz corp where they made LSD. I got a box in the mail and googled the shipping address wondering what this box is and did a huge WTF lol

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  • [+] -23 points 3 days ago (26 children)

    Yea Linux users don't seem to value their time. I spent every other evening for a week trying to install fedora. Multiable downloads, different pen drives, formatting using fadoras own tool. I even tried with a different PC. Nothing. Read the forms to see if there is any known issue. Nobody's got time for that. I'm back with Linux mint on my gaming setup. It hasn't had that many issues. But the gaslighting people seem to say Linux will run on anything with any thing makes me miss trust anything those people say. I don't want a suprise failed update or to spend an evening working out the low level boot issue.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    What was your problem? I really cannot understand, it should be as easy as downloading the ISO, plugging the flashdrive and then tell to a software like rufus to flash the ISO to the pen drive, you then go in the bootloader, change the boot priority to pen drives and then reboot the PC and should start the installation (or if the distro has the "live enviroment" you can first try out the distro without installing and then install when you feel ready)

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  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    That's what I thought. I was using ventoy, then Rufus, then fedoras own imaging tool. Im not new to this ether Ive installed Ubuntu and Linux mint multiable times. I have ventoy as I like to boot some tools but also proxmox. Windows (as it's my day job) has given me issues but nothing to the level of fadora.

    It would love boot but after a full install it refused to boot. It would post and show a loading message but then it was as it would power off. I can't remember what the error messages where they flashed on the screen for a micro second then the fans stoped and I would need to live boot again. I assumed some sort of install failure or some setting where I'm forgetting to add the gui or something. I spent more time trying to get it to work adjusting bios settings or different settings on the install. In the end decided that Linux mint was best. I installed it and had it working as expected within 20 minutes.

    My main issue is the sentiment that people are afferming here. where any issue like this is the users fault. Or it's a "skill issue". I'm not sure how I could have messed it up as it's the Linux equivalent of burning cereal. After a week of burnt cornflakes I cut my losses.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    I installed it and had it working as expected within 20 minutes.

    then what is the problem? one solution didn't work, you tried another and it did?

    isn't that exactly how people troubleshoot windows problems? and that tends to happen more often when you are new to it.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Personally have had more issues with the windows installer than any Linux installer I've ever used (on multiple different systems)

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  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago*

    I run two different RPM distro machines. Took me less than forty minutes to install on each (my internet is slow), and one of them is an eight-year-old laptop with an i3 and 8 gigs of memory. All runs fine, had issues with the Bluetooth antenna on one (just drivers).

    I had to help a family member set up a W11 laptop, took hours (pre-installed) to sift through all the bullshit settings to make it even function without disrupting every session or literally spying on them.

    So, I dunno, maybe you pissed off some witch and got cursed, seems like a pretty exceptional experience you had.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago (8 children)

    I tried to get Nobara working on my pc and couldn't do it. I have installed soany forms of Debian/ubuntu and arch. I did get bazzite working, but I didn't like how locked down that os is.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    I hope you don't mind me asking, but how is Bazzite locked down? I have never run any Linux as a primary desktop, though I'm relatively familiar with Linux in general from my years of general nerdiness. I recently installed bazzite on a whim on an old laptop as a first step of potentially shedding Windows (because I like games and bazzite says it's for gaming). I very limited use it seemed fine, but that's basically been installing a few things and testing a few games.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Bazzite is an Atomic system. Most of it's files are immutable, and can only be modified with a system update. That's great for stability and working from a system exactly as tested, but lots of software needs (or wants) to add extra files to the system. In Bazzite you should basically spin up a VM for that (or a toolbox, those are cool), or "layer" it into the system which reduces the stability you get from the Atomic system.

    Both VMs and Layering are extra steps and can be complex depending on what you need, so it's more difficult to do otherwise routine things if you're not well versed already.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    The other option is to make a build of the system yourself where you add the packages, IIRC i saw someone do it in a github repo and then having automatic builds, though i cannot say personally how easy is to do that and IMO it's just too much work for just installing packages

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    That defeats the big advantage of having a well-tested common source to build off of. It's basically making a new flavour, like Bazzite did with Silverblue. It's cool and all, probably great for deploying lots of machines, but definitely not an everyday solution.

    I think CachyOS is built like that, where you are intended to modify the build of the system like that.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (6 children)

    I spent every other evening for a week trying to install fedora.

    Skill issue.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    Yes, that's the point, very astute of you. It takes time and knowledge to get good at stuff like this.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Once. It takes time and energy once, because its a new thing. This is true of all new things. If you want to go to a new library, you have to learn the route or address, drive there, get a new card, and find the books/places things are. The dewey decimal system is the same, but no ones really using it and the help desk is likely in a different area.

    So, with installing a new operating system, you need to know how to install an operating system, follow the instructions, and then use the operating system.

    Its almost exactly the same effort. Some people will need to learn how to drive, or the bus route, or whatever, but thats expected.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    Oh hell no it isn't "once". I've been running Linux machines at home for various purposes for well over a decade and I'm constantly having to learn new shit. Especially because some distros will break things with updates and you're on your own to figure it out much of the time.

    Linux is easier now than it's ever been but it's certainly not nearly as user friendly as Windows or Mac. It's also an intimidating topic to approach with an overwhelming amount of info that the typical the user never needs to think about otherwise (what's a distro , what DE should I use, how do I install software on my distro, etc). the aggressively unsympathetic community doesn't help either.

    Some of that isn't the fault of Linux but the truth remains.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    People keep saying this, but windows and macos are not user friendly. Theyre user hostile. "No, you cant do that unless you perform a ritual." "Want to download something? Spend 4 hours typing random terminal commands to maybe get a package manager thats out of date 9/10 times or good luck googling." "Want to change where your taskbar is? Too bad." "Want to do literally anything? Every setting is a coinflip between vibecoded settings app, windows 7 legacy menus, or windows xp legacy menus. The latter two work better (and the former is just the latter obfuscated) but are hidden in secret menus. Good luck!"

    My 80 year old grandma has no issues at all with her CachyOS/kde/Limine installation, but i used to get calls every other weekend for her windows 11 laptop.

    Also, if i need to do anything, i can just ssh into her computer without issue. Ill admit that quick assist is way better here, but the point is that i get significantly less calls because KDE is just intuitive.

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  • [–] 1 point 14 hours ago (1 child)

    Skill issue.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 hours ago

    Exactly. Navigating Windows is a skill. Navigating linux is a skill. Navigating Macos is a skill. This argument that linux in its current state is user unfriendly ignores that all operating systems are unfriendly, and my argument is that linux tends to be more intuitive because of learned mistakes from Windows and Macos.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    I don't know what you mean by "Nothing" but, I have often failed to have any luck with the automatic partitioning, and I end up doing the partitioning manually. Especially since I almost always separate / and /home onto different physical drives. And doing that, you have to lay out a /boot/efi partition. Without doing that it'll go through the motions but you won't get a bootable system.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (1 child)

    There are issues with that of course, but for my fedora, Pidoras tools helped identify and fix the compatibility issue

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    It was probably a compatibility issue. I'm sure if I was more invested I would find a way. I was distro hoping so I wasn't going to put myself through it. if it had installed it would be a different matter.

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