I was dreading writing this since I did not want to risk starting any drama, but I don’t know what else to do anymore after seeing the moderating staff reject my report.

It’s truly undeniable that these last three years have been stressful for all of us — most of all Palestinians — so some cynicism is to be expected. That being said, tolerating anti-Jewish sentiment like this does not help any of us either. All that it really does is play into the Herzlians’ hands, capitulating to their alarmism, and makes our spaces less welcoming to Jewish critics of Zionism. I know that we’re all tired of Herzlians constantly abusing accusations of antisemitism, but going so far as to tolerate that phenomenon only gives them exactly what they want to see.

And for the record, yes, I do think that bashing Germans or Italians or the Japanese per se during World War II would have been wrong, because it misidentifies ethnicity as the real problem and needlessly erases the Germans, Italians, and Japanese folk who opposed the Axis. It would have been easier to understand coming from the people whom the Axis oppressed, but even so I would have gently discouraged that kind of thinking. I refuse to play ethnic supremacists’ games by indulging in a little ethnocentrism myself.

I am not going to ragequit Lemmygrad.ml again, but I have to be honest and admit that tolerance for toxicity like this only makes me less interested in using this forum and convinces me that I was correct to limit my usage anyway. That isn’t meant to be a threat; if you truly see nothing wrong with speech like this then I guess that there’s really not much that I can do to stop you. But however you feel about that, I’ll do what feels natural to me and be around less and less.

‘Jewish people today are a privileged subset of white people in the racial hierarchy that exists in western society. Nobody should be worrying about “anti-semitism” any more than they should have worried about anti-German sentiment or anti-Italian sentiment during the second world war.  If somebody said “fuck the jews”, it is about as offensive as if someone said “fuck white people”, which is to say not at all. There is no implicit racially charged unjustness in those statements as opposed to if someone said “f- black people” or “f- Palestinians”. These groups of people are actual oppressed minorities whereas white people and jews are not oppressed.  Jewish supremacists demand that Jews be treated like an inherently oppressed minority whilst they are actually at the top of the chain. There is a genocide going on. Calling a German a kraut wasn’t offensive during the second world war.  The vast majority of people in the world do not think about or care about Jews. The vast majority of the jews in the world live in Israel which is an ethnostate created for them, and the US where they are at the top of the racial heirarchy, often enjoying much better wealth and social prestige than any other group of people. Anti-semitism is not a 21st century thing anymore.  Apart from fringe neonazi groups, nobody really hates jews for being jews.’
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[–] 31 points 1 week ago (1 child)

I don't want to be nasty, but I have to say, that to a large extent, it's correct to say the vast majority of Jews in the world, who reside in the US, Israel, or Europe, may as well occupy the same position as white people. That being, they stand on top of a racial caste system. We can argue about polling but besides an increasing trend among younger Jews, most support Israel to one extent or another. This comes from the fact that Israel's settler colonial nature directly materially benifets Jews at the expense of Palestinians.

Israel being a state actor (unfortunately) gives it basically unlimited resources when it comes to inserting zionism into every single Jewish organization and community from its western backers. This makes anti-zionist organizations extremely difficult to maintain. So, Zionism is hegemonic within the larger Jewish community.

Now, you can say that zionism and Judaism aren't the sake, and I'd agree, mainly due to the fact that Judaism is a much older concept. However, at this point in time, the distinction between Judaism and Zionism among the majority of Jews is non-existent. The reality is, due to the corrosive rot that infects every settler population during the process of settler colonialism, Jews are by and large inclined to support imperialism at this historical moment.

I think this is changing, slowly, among a not-insignificant portion of younger Jews who are opposing genocide, but not to a degree that can substantially burden the zionist project (and I think the entity will collapse before it can become substantial).

It's frankly a microcosm of the larger imperial core. A small number of anti-imperialists, struggling to break out of of imperial consciousness, and feeling like they're going mad due to the overwhelming imperialist rational portrayed by all their peers.

Also, we should recognize why the Holocaust targeted Jews, and why Hitlerism placed such an emphasis on antisemitism, is because Hitler conflated Bolshevism and Judaism as the same phenomenon in his mind. Their were historical conditions for that, such as Jews being an internally colonized population to a degree within Europe. This led to higher participation in revolutionary movements at the time, as it does everywhere. However those conditions no longer exist, at least not for Jews.

Similar conditions do exist for Muslims across the west, and in a similiar fashion, they are suppressed in increasingly brutal ways. The reason for that is slightly different though, this time being due to Muslim populations wanting their homelands to be decolonized, which would kill imperialist unipolarity.

The resurgence of Judeophobia comes from the historical Hitlerite tendency among the right. Yet, it still hasn't translated to a policy of systematic discrimination in the West. Instead, similiar to cries for white safety in the past, measures used to "protect jews" are actually mechanisms being put in place to surveil, kidnap, and financially isolate, other marginalized groups in the US, primarily Muslims.

Jews accutely benifet off of the growth in Islamophobia, in the immiseration of West Asia, and of the maintaining of the US empire. So does the rest of the imperial core's populace, but due to the empire using Jews as the primary "human stock" to maintain its presence in West Asia, they receive the most bountiful loot of most other communities here.

This is however not an eternal phenomenon, it can only be sustained for as long as Israel is still holding on. They looks less likely with every passing day in my opinion. And, to an extent, I must say, I do fear the "comeuppance" that the mechanisms of empire will have for the subjects that failed it.

This is where the hitlerite trend becomes dangerous. That tendency will, in my opinion, be unleashed by the empire domestically as a sort of reaction to Israel's failure to secure the empire's hold. Just as swiftly as the white identity was bestowed upon Jews, it will be ripped away. The mechanisms made to "prevent antisemitism" will be used to enforce an actual judeophobic policy, as well as onto all the other marginalized peoples in the West, as it already has.

The main distinction between Jewish identity and White identity is that White identity was explicitly constructed for the sake of dividing working class power, and enacting genocide. Jewish identity has an actual history predating zionism which can be pulled from to reorient it, whereas, white identity can only be dismantled.

This isn't me trying to be a Jewish exceptionalist, I'm just noting the difference of the two.

With regards to opening space for Jewish critics of Zionism. I must ask, are they coming here because they are genuine critics of zionism, or because we are not hostile enough to zionism? I'm not going to normalize crass expressions like "Fuck the Jews" or things of that variety. However, wat exactly does being open mean?

I can understand allowing people to unlearn at their own pace, as of course people in the imperial core are going to have a lot of unlearning to do. But I'm not going to sugar coat and deny that Jews by and large support genocide at the moment.

I've never minced my words speaking on the vulgarity of Sunni Arabs for example, when discussing their sectarianism with regards to Iran and Syria. Many here can attest, that I've spoken about Syrian Arab Sunnis in an even more disparaging manner than the original poster spoke if Jews, yet no one has made any comment about that commentary. Why should Jews from the imperial core be treated with more leeway then I've treated people of my own faith, regardless if they are different sect.

Sunni Arabs have been integral to the continued imperialism of West Asia, using sectarian to justify their opposition to Iran and support for anti-shi'ite political projects, nearly all of which have been backed by the US and Israel. Yet Jews, whose support has been even more consequential to the colonization of West Asia, are meant to treated with less scrutiny?

I understand that in the West, we're conditioned to treat historic Jewish suffering as exceptional and eternal, but it does not manifest that way in our current reality.

I can agree we need to make the distinction that the US is the primary driver of the zionist entity, not the other way around. However I make that distinction for a very simple reason.

When Israel collapses, the US and Europe will still be imperialists. They will continue engaging in barbaric actions across the world until they are stopped, Zionism withstanding or not.

Hopefully, my comment does not come off as rude or disrespectful, but I felt the need to be a bit blunt.

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