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Tankies hate this one weird trick (europe.pub)
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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I don't like spending this much time arguing against campism but they just keep talking at me.

A picture of Gus Friv captioned "I'm cool with communism because I don't believe it has to be authoritarian; you're cool with communism because you don't mind if its authoritarian; we are not the same."
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[–] 6 points 3 days ago* (8 children)

How do you justify democracy when people are voting for life to be worse instead of better

How are you determining "better" and "worse"? In most cases, there's no way of knowing what is "better" or "worse" sub species aeterinatis, because most government decisions are not optimizing a single parameter, and are instead making a judgement call by choosing one of multiple options from a Pareto frontier. With democracy, the people get what the majority of people want. Majority rule is better than minority rule.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    Bourgeois democracy is minority rule tho, I want a democracy where money doesn't have a voice

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago* (6 children)

    There's a big difference between the ideal democracy and the bastardization of a democratic process we have in America, much like how Marx's vision of communism is hugely different from any actual communist implementation. I personally don't believe that any one governing/socioeconomic system taken in a vacuum is the right answer, they all seem to rely on humans being fundamentally good-natured but it just isn't true for much of the humans attracted to positions of power.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 hours ago

    Marx's understanding of building communism isn't hugely different from existing communist projects, you're confusing Marx's (very vague) descriptions of higher-stage communism with what transitional socialist projects have been able to build thus-far.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    an ideal democracy would be a democracy where the people have power, as opposed to one where money rules. such is the case in the fake 'democracies' under capitalism. it's not just america and it's nothing to do with humans needing to be 'good natured'.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago* (3 children)

    The problem is "the people" in a democracy literally just amounts to "the majority", and would thus favor the average and the interests thereof over the interests of underprivileged minorities. Can we count on the average person to be concerned about the well being of those who lack the collective power they enjoy? As of now, I would say definitely not.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    i don't think that rich people are inherently better any respecting the rights of minorities.

    the current system demonstrably does not protect minorities either.

    also the current system actively manufactures consent through media ownership and economic coercion. capital owners play a major role in that process.

    what looks like majority opinion is often manufactured preference serving capital. a democracy where people had actual material security and genuine information might produce very different majorities.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (1 child)

    i don’t think that rich people are inherently better any respecting the rights of minorities.

    I didn't say that though, so how about you go have this imaginary argument with someone else.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    an ideal democracy would be a democracy where the people have power, as opposed to one where money rules.

    The problem is “the people” in a democracy literally just amounts to “the majority”, and would thus favor the average and the interests thereof over the interests of underprivileged minorities.

    the way i read your point was 'the elites protect minorities from the mob' as a defense of the current system.

    do you have some alternative vision?

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