maybe the real treasures are the natural resources we destroy along the way!
Showerthoughts
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
Rules
- All posts must be showerthoughts
- The entire showerthought must be in the title
- No politics
- If your topic is in a grey area, please phrase it to emphasize the fascinating aspects, not the dramatic aspects. You can do this by avoiding overly politicized terms such as "capitalism" and "communism". If you must make comparisons, you can say something is different without saying something is better/worse.
- A good place for politics is c/politicaldiscussion
- Posts must be original/unique
- Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct and the TOS
If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.
Quite a few assumptions being made and quite a lot of hyperbole.
- The richest man in the world is not representative of the human race. Also, settling Mars (within timelines that musk is suggesting) is not treated seriously by any institution with significant power.
- We aren't putting earth's ability to host life in jeopardy. Not even close. Yes, human caused climate change is bad. Worst case outcomes lead to most human settlements going under water and extinctions in a manner that the planet has seen only a few times. But again, not even close where we need to abandon earth cuz we "ruined it" or whatever. Not even nuclear war would lead humanity to come to this conclusion.
As for why a civilization should be interested in spreading out as much as possible in case it wants to survive:
- spreading out reduces the probability of extinction. Right now, one gamma ray burst that's close enough, and that is aimed at earth can render the entirety of humanity extinct. But if we were more spread out, not all humans would have to die. The same logic can be applied to relativistic weapons aimed at earth.
- spreading out gives us access to a lot of resources. Earth's gravity and atmosphere makes it hard to manufacture and launch megastructures. Megastructures can allow us to create really cool stuff.
- many humans find exploring the universe really cool!
If alien species are anything like us, I highly doubt that they'd come to the conclusion that you've posited.
I can point to examples of many civilizational collapses based on comparatively minor climate abnormalities in the last mere 7,000 years, and can say with certainty the earth has gone at least 5,000,000,000 without being bombarded by even one gamma ray burst.
I think any alien civilization with basic math would prioritize the bird-in-hand.
Civilization collapsing doesn't equal to species end. A gamma ray burst or yeah something that has already happened in the planets past, a big enough asteroid hitting us. Can mean the end of the species.
Of course civilizations collapse should be avoided even just for the reason of avoiding lots of people dying. We shouldn't completely discard expanding into space either. Our population and civilization is big enough that both things can be done at the same time.
Working towards both will probably provide a better overall goal for common people as well instead of currently working just to line the pockets of CEOs and pedofiles.
At this point civilization collapse would effectively terrestrially lock us in. There aren't enough easily accessible raw materials to reindustrialize to a space-faring point.
You can point to those civilizations because their collapse was not the end, life continued on. We haven't been hit by a gamma ray burst or any other complex life ending disaster since we are here to discuss the scenario. But that's no guarantee that we won't be.
The odds of anything happening to render Earth totally uninhabitable are very small... in our lifetimes. But as long as we keep existing, the time frame will keep growing, the opportunities for disaster will keep accumulating and the odds will keep multiplying. The basic math looks very different when you multiply by infinity. Even the sun won't last forever.
Obviously, this is no reason to neglect Earth and rush to other planets. But it is reason enough to reject the idea that we should never spread to other worlds because Earth will always be enough.
without being bombarded by even one gamma ray burst.
you wouldn't know that. deep-sea life would probably survive any gamma ray burst, i guess.
and it turns out, there's a surprising amount of deep-sea life: bacteria and complex life.

on this diagram, it would throw us back by 300 mio. years max.
Other positive things to mention about space exploration:
- If humanity spreads out across the stars, there is less of a danger for us dying from ANY centralized disaster including the cosmic ones and those we might cause ourselves
- Similar to the above, it will be harder to create centralized governments due to extreme distances and just communication limits set by the speed of light; ergo, if some colony falls prey to a dictatorship it is unlikely to spread easily across all of humanity
- We have lots of questions about the universe which may be answered if we travel it. And, when scientific discoveries are made they often have applications outside their initial field.
- We have lots of questions about biology that living in novel environments would teach us (also lots of other scientific fields too of course)
- Forming colonies will force many small groups of people to work collectively, causing those colonies to form a sense of community—something that is lacking in humanity presently
- Isolation caused by communication limits will be scary but also will decrease our access to 24/7 terrible non-local news (inhibiting our ability to doomscroll) which will likely have a positive impact on everyone’s mental health (..maybe not on earth but in the colonies at least)
- Exploration becoming a possibility will also likely make people happier just by showing that humanity has a future. Also, knowing that there are places you can go to escape society all together is quite a freeing thought for some
- Last but not least WE GET TO GO TO SPACE!
I refuse to believe that capitalism is the terminal emergent quality of life in the unuverse.
I refuse to believe as much for humanity.
"it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism"
Well i was engaging in my community and accepting mutual benefit as compensation but i guess I'll give up on that and go back to doomscrolling and jerking it in isolation to my grok gf. (she loves me)
A Great Filter needs to explain why we don't hear radio transmissions from alien civilisations.
space big explains it pretty clearly tbh
Also dark forest theory
I think the only reason this theory exists is because it's kinda spooky and fills us with dread.
If such a civilisation existed with the power, intention, and tech to zoom around killing off other species:
- how do other planets know they need to hide?
- why haven't we been killed off yet ?
- what is the motivation of these civilisation-squashers?
- and finally... if everyone was hiding out avoiding making any radiowaves, the killers would have long since switched to looking for the conditions that support life, the same way we do.

The issue isn't just flying saucers not landing in downtown Manhattan, the problem is the universe has been silent so far for us. A universal tendency towards planetary protection doesn't explain why we don't see a cosmos awash in artificial electromagnetic signals. Everything we find seems to have a natural explanation. If life really was as common as it should be, we would see it broadcasting out into the dark like we are. The universe is old, big and filled with the stuff life needs. Life SHOULD exist, the fact that we haven't found any real evidence of it yet is bizarre. Some fundamental part of how we understand the universe is wrong.
That just indicates nobody is beaming an uncompressed signal directly at use. Something not on a tight beam directed at us would disperse and get lost in the noise. A compressed data stream would be indistinguishable from noise if since we don't know the compression algorithm and with any kind of interference at all there wouldn't be any way to distinguish it from noise.
Getting a radio signal basically requires there to be an alien race that knows we're here and wants to talk to us.
Yupp could be a whole species of beings out there with their own space programs trying to send and recievesignals but they're left in the dark just like us, forever out of reach and drifting further from each other.
We may be receiving weak signals all the time that come across as noise, but receiving a message is a different story with specific motivations and efforts behind it.
The "great filter" is simply basic physics and chemistry, the Periodic Table of the Elements, the fundamental forces and engineering limits.
We're not going there, they're not coming here.
I think the universe being the same wall to wall means life is probably very common, and will follow pretty much the same rules and limits as here. We're not special, neither are they.
I continue to read sci-fi under the lens that it represents our racial (as in human race) tendency to fear the other and enjoying war and destruction despite screaming that we've evolved beyond that. We're a bunch of tribal war-like destructive plains apes with computers and guns.
Star Trek isn't real, there will be no warp drives, transporters, Dyson spheres, Ringworlds, Space Elevators, or even just a basic flush toilet on the Moon.
Forget it. Build something worth living for here cuz out there is a deadly radiation-blasted nothing with nothing in it.
Warp drive is still possible with our current understanding, Fusion is right around the corner (at least if we look at the entire human existence) and while most mega structures are fictional, a Dyson swarm is fairly easy to do and completely possible.
Humanity could still go very far till physics and chemistry are the real limiters, but human greed will wipe us out first.
100% agree that we should focus on fixing down here, but very bold of you to assume Fermi, Konopinski, Teller and York, as well as all of the other minds who've wrestled with this question have all overlooked basic physics, chemistry and engineering.
Maybe. But this would still only filter some.
The great filter to me is a vast mix of filters. Some never leave their planets because they are oceanic only and forever, some because the gravity is too high to ever escape, some because they die out, others due to no genetic intrinsic motivation to expand at all, etc. There can by myriad possible filters all applying at the same time
Or, perhaps, the "Great Filter" is just a question of "Can a species come together, or will greed of a person outweigh life of people?"
Nah. They invent generative AI and their civilizational progress stalls forever.
They (we) become Wall-E human style characters.
That would solve the Fermi paradox too. Smart species stayed on their home planet, dumb ones tried to leave it. While trying, they ruined their best chance of survival. While in space, they found out that survival out there is nearly impossible without a planet. That’s why we don’t hear from them.
good ending
we know is a sure bet on where we can prosper if we keep it healthy,
haha dude, error #1. we can do everything right and still be toast if all our eggs are in this one fucking basket. the universe is a big place and the earth is a very small, vulnerable one.
No truly cataclysmic events occurred in the last millions of years, so we're probably safe enough.
Fucking up the planet in an anthropogenic way is clearly a bigger concern, and launching giant stuff into space contributes to that.
In other words, maybe later it could be worth it, but only if we solve the problems right here. Otherwise, we won't make it there, either.
With our current understanding, the universe is a vulnerable place. Heat death of the universe may be a thing that's inescapable.
"We need to spread to the stars to ensure the survival of our species."
Why? Why does our species need to survive? Why would anyone care about that? I don't think anyone really does. People just want to do cool stuff, as entertainment. To alleviate boredom. That's it.
No one reading this will "go to the stars". It's unlikely more than a handful will visit Mars in your lifetime. Why anyone would want to go to Mars is beyond me, it's extremely inhospitable to humans. There's nothing there.
We thought, after going to the moon we'd continue on in that vain, and have space hotels by 2001. It didn't happen, don't think anything will be different this time.
Stop thinking we can trash this planet, "but it's okay because we'll find a different one." That's not going to happen. It's far, far more likely we're going to kill ourselves off long before we can get anywhere close to doing that. That's the reality.
We should die out on this planet.
There is a handful of people with the money to get to Mars who can go die somewhere else
right, all eggs one basket? sure Jan.