Hi everyone, I'm scrodumb and I am a retail butcher and sausage maker in Toronto, Canada.

My culinary experience extends far beyond that but these days my specific interests are mostly meat and meat processing. Starting to get into charcuterie and expanding my sausage repertoire into fermented, cured, smoked and emulsified products. Will be making my first coppa and pancetta this coming week. Have some Cantonese style lap cheong drying too.

I'm happy to help with any meat related questions or troubleshooting, feel free to ask here or message me directly. Love bouncing ideas back and forth especially with other foodheads.

A couple weeks ago I ordered a half hog of Meishan pork for myself and made a bunch of sausages for my friends and family. The pic is my personal versions of Barese sausage (coiled) and Chipolatas (breakfast sized links). Both are super popular and I'm happy to share the formulations if anyone is interested. I have dozens more sausage formulations too, just ask. I can turn nearly any red sauce pizza recipe into a sausage. Hawaiian absolutely SLAPS. Other dishes too. I created a Cubano sausage that tastes just like the sandwich.

I'll try to post every week or two but seriously if you have any meat related queries hit me up I'm always happy to help. Next post will likely be some tips and tricks I've learned and discovered in my journey.

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[–] 25 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I’m not even sure I know what to ask!

Let’s start with something, though….What are your favorite cuts to work with… and what do you with them?

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Beef I like the boneless blade section. Poor man's ribeye, Denver steak, stir fry (poor man's flank steak right beside the Denver), plenty of stew and burger. I usually braise large chunks of stew and pull it, I make wicked "carne asada" nachos with it. My favourite cut to cook and eat is the very first chuck end ribeye, failing that a nice 1.5" striploin or a bavette if it's for lunch. Making prime rib roasts is fun. For charcuterie I'm interested in using the "baseball" muscle from the sirloin to make basturma.

    Pork I use whole shoulder for sausages mostly but I'm partial to the midloin chop when it comes to eating. The t-bone pork chop. I like it 1.25" thick. Heritage breed aged for two weeks is God tier chops. I usually go for Mangalitsa breed but our farm didn't have any this time so they sent me Meishan and I'm impressed. Meishan fat is pork fat properties but closer to beef fat flavour. Wow. I have tons of pork products planned in the pipeline. Deli meats, charcuterie, smokies etc.

    Lamb I only eat rib or loin chops but use everything for sausage. I LOVE processing lamb racks but unfortunately market conditions led our shop to order them pre-cleaned. Every chance I get I'll clean and french a lamb rack. It's fun.

    Chicken is all about the thigh for me. Breast meat is trash these days. North America has overbred our hens to the point they're stacking breast meat TWICE as fast as ten years ago. Problem is the heart can't pump oxygenated blood to the muscle fast enough so the collagen doesn't develop and the spaghetti-sized muscle fibres split apart and look and eat like crap. Thighs are still excellent, almost impossible to overcook and full of flavour. Wings when I'm entertaining (fried in schmaltz ofc). Leg drumsticks when I'm cooking just for me or for staff meal.

    Turkey. Don't get me started. It's stupid for every reason imaginable. BUT I am going to make turkey bacon at work soon for the first time and I'm optimistic. Last Thanksgiving I made a turkey breast roulade stuffed with turkey sausage. Year prior it was a spatchcocked bird brined overnight in saltwater and liquid smoke. Divine. This year my brother is cooking it but I'll provide the bird and brine it in the smoke brine again. When I eat turkey I prefer sausages. I make amazing turkey sausages (I leave the skin on when I grind). I find nearly any formulation I use for beef or pork works just as well with turkey. I make a wicked turkey pepperoni that doesn't require fermenting. Mustard powder replaces paprika and bacteria culture to retain the tangy notes.

    Aside from the odd custom order that's the bread and butter of what I enjoy at work.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I associate sausages with ultra processed foods & low quality meats and generally avoid buying them at the supermarket.

    Looking at your post, it seems like that’s not the sausage’s fault though — so where do I get high-quality sausages from? Also, are there sausages you recommend for fitness-aware folks, that are higher in protein and lower in fats?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I appreciate your enthusiasm, welcome!

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 2 weeks ago

    Thanks.

    I can't wait to share the lap cheong post. Expect it mid October, after our Thanksgiving. My first time making it but I'm already planning a Szechuan version for next time.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Excuse me what do you mean by "I can turn any red sauce pizza into a sausage". I'm a huge fan of Hawaiian pizza and you seem to be suggesting this can be sausaged? How is that possible does it have dough.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Everything but the crust. I don't use binders or fillers.

    Ingredients are salt, pepper, tomato paste (neutralized with baking soda), dried oregano, chili flakes, ham or cooked bacon, high temp mozzarella (I make my own) and canned pineapple. There's some nuanced technique beyond that but it's literally a Hawaiian pizza on a bun.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Wish we had decent butchers here. Lots of ranch land, no butchers. Sad.

    Will be making my first coppa and pancetta this coming week.

    This is a long process, yeah? Keep us updated?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (12 children)

    Hi I’d put your meat in my mouth so call me if you’d like.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

    My sausage already has a local fanclub, you'll have to do a bit better than that🤣

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    I’ll tickle your meatballs if you get my drift.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    With a username like that I can't say no.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    Okay.

    I want a bear and moose sausage seasoned with onion, garlic and pepper.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

    Depending on the season you'll want either more bear or more moose. Either way you'll need to add pork fat. Aim for a 70/30 lean to fat ratio grind. Use more bear meat if they're still on berries and more moose if the bear is already on salmon. Grind half the meat once, the other half twice. Grind the fat once. All from near frozen temp.

    Beyond that you're looking at something like this:

    • 1.8% kosher salt
    • 0.2% white pepper
    • 0.2% black pepper
    • 1.5% fresh garlic, ultra fine dice
    • Coarse diced onion, sweated with brown sugar (I use 2-4 small yellow onions for 10 lbs meat)

    You can also do 0.4% garlic powder and 0.3% onion powder but that will taste more like a breakfast sausage than an entree.

    You could replace the onions with 0.3% dried marjoram and have a nice game meat kielbasa for the smoker.

    If that was merely more innuendo you should know it's an otter sausage, portioned like an elk's, natural casing and unseasoned.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Ay, I dont have a question right off but we're glad you're here! ☺️❤️

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    Is it true I don't want to know how the sausage is made?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Hahaha. Not here. I work in an open shop so everyone can walk back to the window and watch us cut and work. Kids are fascinated watching me make sausage. We have milk crates I'll setup so the younger ones can see over the half wall.

    I wouldn't trust a mass produced sausage. The amount of waste I remove...there's a reason we charge more than factory sausage.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    What all is in the category of "waste" that you remove?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Skin, bone, excess fat, fascia and ligament, glands and lymph nodes, traces of organ meat, blood clots, hair...

    Factory lines will add excessive binders, gluten fillers, potassium sorbate (I could be mistaken but it's SOMETHING similar) to increase water absorption...and thus excess water, all kinds of off cuts ("lips, hooves and assholes" is the meme but it's not quite that gross in reality). Plus they're grinding and combining meat from thousands of animals from dozens of sources which increases the need for treatment and preservatives. All my sausage meat comes from one farm and week to week it's all from one harvest. Much easier quality control.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    So I'm generally in the camp of might as well eat it if it's there, use the whole animal and all that. I'm not suggesting you lower quality we already have plenty of cheap stuff, but isn't some of it still edible even if it brings quality down? Does stuff like organ meat and skin get sent elsewhere like maybe an in house broth idk? (Also not trying to say you're specifically being wasteful if you throw stuff out or anything. Used to be married to a chef so I know the efforts that go into reducing food loss but I don't know a lot about butchery in particular so I'm just curious)

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    When I process my own hog I use almost everything. I make bone broth using the collagen tissue, skins, bones. I render all the excess fat to lard.

    Through work we don't have a solid market for pork broth or lard so it goes into the waste bin. A service picks it up every week and it's shipped to a sorting facility then on to rendering plants and processors for all kinds of applications. Pet food/treats, cosmetics, soap, fertilizer, all kinds of stuff.

    I make my own dog treats with some of the choice scrap material such as beef ligaments and pig skins. I also make my own soap from time to time and I use plenty of beef fat.

    Glands and lymph nodes are SUPER bitter so I try to remove them prior to grinding. They're usually edible and probably insanely nutritious but they ruin flavour like it's a full time job.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    what about things like chicken hearts or giblets? They're delicious in pasta sauce or smoked, what about sausages?

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 weeks ago

    Organ meat is more delicate than muscle and can easily overcook at much lower temperature/time.

    Typically organ meats will go into their own sausage or adjacent product such as a pate or pudding or liverwurst.

    Most small shops like my employer can't produce it at scale and can't afford to produce it in small batches. Those products are supplied by a wholesaler. The industry sends that meat directly to those producers and the muscle sections we get delivered are already clean of those materials.

    I agree, chicken organs are delicious.

    I tried making turkey pate this past January but I fucked it up royally. Luckily it was just leftover giblets from Christmas week we'd have tossed away so we didn't lose money. This season I'll try again but small personal batch at first while I hone my process.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago

    Hello mr sausage boffin

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I know not even enough to ask questions. So where do I get started with curing meats?

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 2 weeks ago

    Learn what cuts make good cured versions. Pork belly is an excellent starting point.

    Get cure salt and optionally a cure accelerator. I use sodium erythorbate but it isn't required.

    Tons of tutorials and recipes online, I'm just getting into it so I can't recommend one over another but Two Guys And A Cooler (website and YT channel) is where I began.

    You'll need some consumables, whether it's natural or synthetic casing or a collagen dry aging wrap. You can also get dry aging vac bags but they're not the greatest.

    Then finally a cure chamber. For some stuff I'll use the cold cellar at my dad's house, for others a standard refrigerator is just fine.

    Curing meat is scientific and you MUST be precise with ratios of cure salt, accelerator as well as everything else. Learning the difference between a recipe and a formulation is beneficial as the latter you can tailor to any raw weight and reproduce the same result time and time again. Everything is a percentage or ratio based on raw weight. Cure #1 is 0.25% to 0.3% depending on region. Sodium erythorbate is half that. Everything else has wiggle room based on personal tastes. In my experience less is often "more".

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Over the last couple years I've been working my way through Marianski's book along with Duncan Henry's Marianski March series on his Youtube channel.

    Mistakes have been made.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Marianski is awesome. I've been watching a lot of Duncan Henry stuff lately too, he's great for technique and general knowledge and also a fellow hoser. Every October Two Guys And A Cooler does a Celebrate Sausage series on YT with a new recipe every day. I'm submitting several for next year.

    Another sausage great is Len Poli. He's a bit more advanced but I make versions of his formulations and they're all excellent.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    do you have any recommendations for grinders/stuffers? I tried using the kitchenaid attachments and they were beyond useless.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    Purpose built machines for both tasks.

    LEM has a solid reputation amongst home cooks and hobbyists but Hakka Bros/MEAT/whatever other brand the Chinese factory wholesales to are perfectly viable options too. If I had to buy my own gear for home use I'd go with Hakka/MEAT Chinese gear.

    The hobbyists all agree you should "buy once, cry once" with this hobby. Get the size up from what you need now so you can scale up production in a year without buying new machines.

    If you eat a lot of sausage it pays itself off quickly.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Do you cook that Barese whole in the coil in a pan or baked in the oven as a coil or is that just how it looks after you process it?

    For this Cubano sausage are you using toasted breadcrumb filler to make the sausage taste like taking a bite into a sandwich or just the meat, pickle, cheese, mustard mix in sausage form?

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I cook the barese as a whole coil. Pan fried or charcoal grilled. When we sell it at the shop the owner prefers I make links but I'll do coils on request no problem. Coils are the traditional style.

    The Cubano is everything but bread. It's meant to be eaten on a buttered and toasted sausage roll. Ground pork, salt, pepper, mustard seed, mustard powder, ham, pulled pork, Gruyere cheese, pickles. This formulation took years to perfect and was the reason I began researching proper sausage craft. Without it this post wouldn't exist. I'll share a proper Cubano post next time I make it and include my technique for making any cheese a "high temp" sausage cheese.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    I have a meat slicer and do a lot of my own lunch meat. Roast beef is a no-brainer, it's not hard to find a ham to slice down, I've dabbled in some curing to make my own corned beef, pastrami, and bacon, and I've totally ruined myself for the overpriced grocery store versions of those things.

    But what I haven't quite cracked the code on yet is turkey and chicken. Not that I can't roast up a perfectly good Turkey breast, but slicing down a bunch of individual breasts of whatever is kind of a pain, they're small and sort of irregularly-shaped and just not very well suited to a meat slicer.

    I've kind of resorted to getting those boneless butterball turkey roasts to scratch that itch, and they work pretty well and are sized pretty nicely for my slicer, but I'm sure they're some sort of a brine-injected, meat glue abomination.

    Do you know of any way to make something similar at home? Basically looking for a big, fairly regularly-shaped log of Turkey or chicken, ideally without needing to grind it up and stuff it into a casing.

    I did a test of cramming a bunch of chicken breasts into some netting, let them sit in a brine for a day or two, roasted it in the net, and it almost kind of worked, but it didn't hold together well enough for it to be worth the effort.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    I've never made it before but from what I understand you need to use salt and cure #1 on the breast then you can stuff it in whatever casing and netting you have. Once cured you can smoke or roast or sous vide it until cooked. Ice bath, rest at room temp for 30 minutes then into the cooler overnight before slicing.

    The salt will catalyse protein extraction which will make the meat bind to itself once stuffed, creating a seemingly solid sphere of turkey breast. The cure will preserve colour, give it that smooth deli meat texture and also prevent botulism while you slowly cook it through the danger zone.

    That's my two cents but as I said I've never done it nor researched it properly so I could be wrong or incomplete. YT is always my go-to when I want to learn a new process.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    FYI, presuming I can get them at all, this would cost me around $S200 in Singapore. Fresh sausages are difficult to find here, especially where I live in the East.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    This tray would retail for approximately $S155 here. It's specialty pork, if I used regular pork it would be closer to $S110. Not counting my labour this tray cost me less than $S40.

    Note to self: get a Singapore work visa

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  • [+] 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    That's a tricky question. Thousands of chorizo variants by region and style.

    If you want a cured chorizo, guessing by asking about nitrate, I'd look into a curing agent called Eco Cure. I've never used it myself but I've heard good things. Avoid celery powder, it's full of nitrate.

    A basic chorizo formulation would look like:

    • 1.8% salt
    • 0.5% black pepper
    • 0.4% garlic powder
    • 0.4-0.8% cayenne
    • 0.4% paprika
    • 0.3% dried oregano
    • 0.2% cumin

    You can add water at about 3.5% if desired but with a nice rich grind it isn't necessary. This is for fresh chorizo. For cured keep in mind curing agent will count towards salt content and don't add water. For smoked you'll want to add water AND binder so water can go up to 5-10% and binder ratio will vary depending on what product you use.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Have you tried doing "alheira"? It's a Portuguese type of charcuterie, from the north, made with chicken.. very good, was created by jewish settlers to avoid suspicion/detection by not having normal "chouriças" (another Portuguese charcuterie made with pork) hanging in their house

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