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[–] 19 points 2 days ago (10 children)

They have unlimited resources and can keep this floating longer than any of us can imagine.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Like the article says, their internal risk management models are telling them to get the risk off their books.

    Taking on the debt in the first place is like agreeing to store a gallon of milk in a fridge for an undetermined amount of time. The milk is going to go bad, and when it does the jug (or bag) might explode forcing a cleanout of the fridge, throwing out other things in the fridge, and maybe replacing the fridge altogether if the milk leaked down into a lot of crevices. Everyone knows the milk will go bad, but the big banks will know how old the fridge is, what coolant it uses, how old the compressor is, how many times a day the fridge has been opened, the average time it stays open, the dairy the cow who produced the milk, and the name of the cow if they can get it. The milk is going bad quicker than expected, and they're finding out they don't want to be the ones to guess when the jug will explode, and they're also finding out that nobody else wants to buy the jug.

    Oracle pulling a "god did it" was probably a part of this, but nobody involved is going to give a real answer.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    Uh brother! (or sister on non binary sibling).

    You just sell the entire fridge as a sub prime fridge and watch the number go up.

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  • [–] 2 points 21 hours ago

    We could put a lot of nicer groceries up front and hope nobody looks deeper!

    But then what happens if someone notices we're selling a lot of fridges? They could buy insurance on the price of our fridges (options), and that wouldn't be good because we know the price is going down, that's why we're selling them (duh). So we'll have to sneak all these things out the door and hope nobody looks or notices until we've got them all sold.

    I guess that's kind of a rough metaphor, but that stuff all still goes on. The math that tells you when to sell the fridge is where all the real value is.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Softbank doesn't.

    With the VC money faucet being cut off, there is no way OpenAI or Anthropic will be able to cover their debt repayments that start in 2027. The media is failing at basic math at this point.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago

    They've been failing at literally every step in AI coverage, especially at just parroting whatever the fuck anthropic and openai claim to be their newest breakthrough without questioning anything. Failing basic math is just icing on the cake.

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    [–] 27 points 2 days ago (21 children)

    Is this similar to the Dot.Com bubble burst?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    Speaking as an ancient person that has survived 40+ years of a capitalist hellscape, Yes. The bubble always bursts.

    It is a thing that bubbles do.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I remember the wall coming down and Denmark winning the UEFA cup in '92...

    I think the AI bubble is gonna be so much worse than dotcom or housing in 2008. To me this AI bullshit is the dotcom on steroids.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 days ago (23 children)

    My youtube algorthim is filled with AI-skeptics (Eli the Computer guy, Ed Zitron, Prof G Markets) so this has been the slowest car crash I've ever gotten to watch happen. If Donald had actually focused on inflation all of these debt-sensitive AI plays could've continued to whistle through the graveyard. The skeptics have called out coreweave as being potentially the first domino to topple and their 6 year debt is trading at 15% right now. Thanks to plummeting token costs, they need to double their token sales every 90 days.

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    [–] 33 points 2 days ago

    Sounds like movable mortgage debt from 2008

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  • [–] 210 points 3 days ago (27 children)

    Buckle up kids. It’s gonna be a fun ride.

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    [–] 34 points 2 days ago (37 children)

    Banks are in the business of underwriting debt and reselling it to private investors.

    We've been reading this "End is Near" shit since COVID. Put something more on the table.

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    [–] 163 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (25 children)

    Probably related to the now three Oracle data center that can’t get electricity.

    Wisconsin passed a law that fast tracking large projects requires a high credit rating or collateral, to pay secure costs for building the power plants needed for the data center. In July Oracle’s debt rating was downgraded to near junk levels.

    That means Oracle can no longer get Wisconsin to supply power to the data center so it’s a $15 billion dollar paper weight. Thats putting even further downward pressure on their credit rating and ability to secure loans to meet their $500B in obligations.

    Now Oracle’s New Mexico data center is stuck due to contract issues with water and gas turbines, so they can’t move foreward. Oracle has a 9% interest rate on the loans to build that, then they raise 2% after construction, because their credit rating is dogshit. So now Oracle is claiming force majeur to get out of their increased debt obligations, which you can imagine, is killing interest in lending to them.

    In Texas they just blocked new grid hookups over political backlash to skyrocketing electricity prices. That killed another Oracle expansion they just canceled, and another one is trucking in gas for gas turbines as an alternative to the electrical grid, which you might imagine is expensive.

    Which brings us to now. The banks are looking at local opposition blocking these projects (local action is working), states are blocking them to avoid getting voted out, hardware costs are shooting up, and the assets backing these loans are too small for so much investment.

    So the level of risk no longer works.

    —

    My personal theory is that Oracle is a sacrificial lamb. It’s a dead end tech company that lives on licensing fees, and they’ve fucked themselves on these expansions. They’re failing at being a hyper-scaler as margins decrease.

    I bet we see someone take Oracle private when their stock collapses, freeing the board of fiduciary duty to the stakeholders with a payout. This move is critical because it blocks other hyperscalers from putting in an offer to acquire their assets to shore up debt.

    OpenAI will acquire the now private Oracle through a special funding round and buy up their hardware for pennies on the dollar. This will absolve them of the debt obligations Oracle has to OpenAI that have killed their credit ($500b), and stabilizes the Oracle balance sheet.

    OpenAI will write this down and offer Oracle’s creditors equity stakes in lieu of cash, and will have acquired all their next gen hardware far cheaper than their competitors.

    This might even fuck over Nvidia, the incestuous funders of the AI circlejerk. If Oracle gets to write off their GPU debts then Nvidia loses a fuck ton of sales, tanking their stock price — they take that OpenAI equity offer and look like they’re playing the game. OpenAI wants to build their own chips anyways, just look at jalapeño.

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    [–] 57 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    It's about time for the ultra-wealthy to create another 2007 so they can wrench the last bits of wealth off anyone who isn't already a $100Ms-billionaire.

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    [–] 35 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Is the bailout going to be because of national security or is it going to be a to big to fail situation.

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    [–] 56 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    It's happening!!! Bubble pop is happening!!! article is underplaying it.

    Coreweave debt pushed towards 16% yield today. The worst of the AI clusterfuck. Oracle, 2nd worse, move to 8% which is still absurdly low, but was holding 6% a week ago.

    Main headline, yes the big banks are selling off debt to losertards. At a discount. Insurance companies are the losertards chasing yield, but have big losses today.

    Nvidia, the circular financing backstop for the bubble, signaled today that it is just waiting for bankruptcies to swoop in instead of propping up the fraud. Bond/share holders will get crushed, and bubble dead, but still Nvidia will drive rampocalypse if the datacenters are still alllowed.

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