So much for "innocent until proven guilty".
this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2025
206 points (99.5% liked)
politics
24326 readers
3121 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Trump doesn't even get that far. He stopped at the words "due process" and said "Nope."
It's important to remember that it actually doesn't matter if Garcia is guilty of any crimes. They might eventually prove that he committed treason, or murdered puppies, or raped someone, or some other crime actual Republicans have actually been convicted for without facing consequences. His guilt or innocence is not as important as the process we use to determine guilt or innocence. You've hit the nail on the head, but I think it's bigger than anyone imagines. Without "innocent until proven guilty," we literally have no laws. There are no legal foundations below that one, and everything is built upon it. It is to the law what thermodynamics is to cuisine. Without it, there's nothing else. We could talk in theory about recipes (legislation), but you can't heat or cool things. We could eat raw ingredients (natural law) but only if it doesn't require refrigeration, that's just eating naturally ocurring local food. You might think that's a good thing, but a return to a state of nature is the opposite of civilization.
...“innocent until proven ~~guilty~~ brown”.
ftfy
So, that phrase doesn't actually appear in the US Constitution, but the Fifth Amendment does explicitly guarantee "due process", and the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" has always been seen as directly tied to that
I think the idea is that if he's acquitted, they'll just deport him somewhere other than El Salvador, which they can legally do.
He missed his window to apply for asylum years ago, so the non-removal order protecting him applied specifically to deportation to El Salvador. He can be sent elsewhere, and with Trump trying to open concentration camps elsewhere, I think he'll eventually end up in a different torture prison.
I hate this reality.
Does him being kidnapped to a gulag on mistaken identity not make him eligible for the visas you can get if a crime is committed against you?
Oh look, defying another court order.
If you’re keeping track, that’s the third box that has failed.
The ballot box didn't fail. People decided they wanted this by either voting Republican or not at all.
When the ballot box fails to prevent fascists from getting elected, the ballot box has failed.
Edit: Because it's the Four Boxes of Liberty, not the Four Boxes of Whatever People Vote For.
If you ignore all the voter suppression and most likely election fraud by the election deniers who ran the counts, sure.
Yes, roughly half of the voting population voted for him. I have strong doubts that he or the overwhelming number of Republicans in other races won fairly.
The problem I have with this voter fraud allegations is his numbers have stayed pretty consistent across the three elections. The Democrats showed up in 2020 but didn't bother for 2024.
The Democrats ... didn't bother for 2024.
At least there's no genocide anymore! /s
I agree with you that there was voter suppression and gerrymandering but in no way were those insurmountable. We chose all this chaos and lawlessness.
If "Did Not Vote" was a candidate:
I missed the human smuggling part.
Dang, the regime really doesn't want him talking do they?
The charges are bullshit, though
The charges, which date back to 2016, allege he transported undocumented individuals between Texas and Maryland and other states more than 100 times.
They are basically accusing him on going on road trips with brown people
I had no misconceptions that the charges were bullshit, but it's pretty damn impressive that they went to those lengths to paint him as a criminal.
I mean hell, interstate bus companies are probably all guilty of this too.
It's vindictiveness, plain and simple. His existence is an embarrassment to them. They absolutely have to get the last word in this fight, because their egos are too fragile for anything else.
I don't think vindictiveness is a major factor. This is about power.
Trump is trying to grab as much power to deport people as he can. He will fight every challenge to it until the legal options are exhausted. He will attack the legitimacy of the courts when he loses. He cares about the precedent and saving face with his base, not Garcia himself.
I missed the human smuggling part.
That's okay. It's complete bullshit. DeSantis and Abbott have both done the same thing Kilmar Ábrego García is accused of and they haven't been charged.
Illegally smuggle someone ... then arrest them for illegal smuggling. Projection much?
Totally not fascism though
The cruelty is the point.