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It’s Time for Democrats to Break With Biden’s Addled Gaza Policy (theintercept.com)
submitted 11 months ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
19 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Joe Biden will not be the Democratic nominee in November’s presidential election, thankfully. He is not withdrawing because he’s being held responsible for enabling war crimes against the Palestinian people (though a recent poll does have nearly 40 percent of Americans saying they’re less likely to vote for him thanks to his handling of the war). Yet it’s impossible to extricate the collapse in public faith in the Biden campaign from the “uncommitted” movement for Gaza. They were the first people to refuse him their votes, and defections from within the president’s base hollowed out his support well in advance of the debate.

The Democrats and their presumptive nominee Kamala Harris are faced with a choice: On the one hand, they can continue Biden’s monstrous support for Netanyahu, the brutal IDF, and Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. That would help allow the party to cover for Biden and put a positive spin on a smooth handoff, even though we all know this would mainly benefit the embittered president himself and his small coterie of loyalists. Such a choice would confirm that the institutional rot that allowed the current situation to develop still characterizes the party.

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[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Since severing ties with Israel would only lead to more chaos in the region, what I'm really hoping for is Kamala 2025, followed by a change in Israeli leadership to mirror the recent US, UK, and French elections that have seen a broadly decimated right wing, and a strengthening of the centre left view of an international rules-based order. We could potentially see Bibi's regime tried for war crimes, China dissuaded from its designs on Taiwan, and Russia faced with stiffer international resolve in Ukraine and beyond.

I'm not prepared to defend any of that as immensely realistic, but writing it was the little taste of hope I needed in the moment.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Since severing ties with Israel would only lead to more chaos in the region

Oh I'm sold. Do as much genocide as you want, as long as you are an implement of United States' resource extraction policy.

We would certainly prefer you didn't do the genocide, but loss of hegemony is what is truly unacceptable, that's a red line we won't cross.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I was just imagining a slightly better world, as a treat. Of course I'd prefer an even better outcome like peace and willing reparations, but I wasn't in the mood for an entirely counterfactual daydream. The current reality is an actual nightmare.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago

You know, I definitely ignored the rest of your comment, that's fair.

I share your hope that VP Harris won't be as intransigent in support of the occupiers as Biden.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

At this point it's very clear it's not Biden's policy that is holding things up. It's very clearly Netanyahu and his cabinet. This isn't even a question anymore as Benny Gantz straight said so when he resigned, and then Netanyahu dissolved his war cabinet, so he's basically acting in direct control of Israeli forces it seems.

Biden and team had a ceasefire agreement, Israel said they agreed, Palestine said they agreed, yet Israel refuses to sign or stop military assault. As far as the "undecided" voters go, they aren't going to get their way. The US as a nation is not going to jeopardize ties with Israel as a proxy military force and ground position in the Middle East for a small percentage of voters. It is what it is, but put the blame where it belongs in the here and now.

[–] Psychodelic@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I want to agree with you. I'd be with you if you'd at least mentioned the impact this has on actual American citizens.

My understanding is plenty of people have been silenced for expressing their support for Palestine. I mean, hasn't Congress literally proposed/passed bills saying they can't even talk about the number of people dying?

It's fascinating how people are so eager to sweep it all under the rug Americans themselves are ignored just to protect Israel, and more importantly, to protect American politicians that refuse to even learn about the situation. That's not even mentioning the absolute infuriating trash that passes as corporate news nowadays (including anything pushed to the masses by large social media publishers). It's like in order to protect Israel... err I mean, stop caring about this issue because it makes us uncomfortable, we're entirely willing to allow news organizations to be straight-up propaganda, feeding blatant misinformation. It's weird how we have zero criticism for them because that might invite someone to mention Gaza

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And do you know how many American lives are being saved by letting Israel fight Iran as a proxy rather than letting it fall and having to deal with the headache afterwards?

Israel is a strategic asset in a larger war, and a lot of people are clearly missing that concept because they don't think the US and Iran are actually at war with each other. It's the same reason why the embargo of Cuba still exists.

Geopolitics is complicated, and most of it is not out in the open for the public to see.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

And do you know how many American lives are being saved by letting Israel fight Iran as a proxy rather than letting it fall and having to deal with the headache afterwards?

Wow, what an argument. Look the other way and prop up the genocidal apartheid state because otherwise we might have to use blood in addition to treasure to defend imperial interests in the Middle East. Just...wow.

It's the same reason why the embargo of Cuba still exists.

What reason is that exactly?

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean, yea. You think the world is some happy go lucky place where people don't fight each other?

The US dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians in Japan to end a war quickly, and despite the backlash they'd kill civilians again in a heartbeat if it was beneficial to America. The number of civilians that died from the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11 shows that very clearly. The current Palestinian death toll is less than 10% of that 20 year conflict, and it was done by Americans directly.

Cuba is being used as a pawn by other countries to threaten the US, the same as it was during the cold war. Russia and China didn't write off $40 billion dollars for free over the last decade.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I mean, yea. You think the world is some happy go lucky place where people don't fight each other?

Umm...lol no. I think the world is run by military forces and their obedient governments.

The US dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians in Japan to end a war quickly

Vaporize civilians for peace!

they'd kill civilians again in a heartbeat if it was beneficial to America

If by America you mean imperial warmaking and profits then yes, "they" have, would, and will continue.

The number of civilians that died from the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11 shows that very clearly. The current Palestinian death toll is less than 10% of that 20 year conflict, and it was done by Americans directly

This point is really confusing but....yay America?

Cuba is being used as a pawn by other countries to threaten the US

Wow what a take. Other countries support Cuba, so the USA gets to perpetuate invasions, assassination attempts, terrorism and eternal economic warfare. The Cubans have no autonomy but also they brought this on themselves.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Ronald Reagan made one phone call and the Israelis immediately stopped bombarding Lebanon. The vassal state has to do whatever the fuck the US president wants. It's a complete joke to think otherwise. Joe Biden could go on TV right now and publicly withdraw support for the occupiers and their government and military would collapse overnight.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Oh, awesome. Let's time travel back then and act like it's now, OH WAIT.

The Israeli state of 40 years only existed due to the US and it's money. That's not necessarily the same situation now. They can buy their own toys, and not be a puppet of the US if they didn't want to now.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You seriously think the Israeli state could survive a loss of US support? They are just as much a vassal as they were then, if not more. They are completely isolated on the world stage and surrounded by geopolitical rivals. Their society is crumbling as we speak. Without the US playing defense, the international community would have come down on Israel decades ago. Do you remember how much they freaked out when Joe Biden kinda sorta hinted that he might possibly not send them all the bombs they wanted?

[–] SaltySalamander@fedia.io 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The US gives israel what, like 3-4billion a year? Their defense budget was like 24b in 2023. They'd be fine without us.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago

Ok, deal, let's do that and find out

[–] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A lot has changed in 40 years. Jewish money in politics, for one.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't personally go with "Jewish Money" as the terminology...😬

That aside, certainly the effect of AIPAC and friends is a part of the pathology. That doesn't change the fact that Joe Biden could end the genocide anytime he wanted. The Zionist entity cannot survive without US hard power backing.

[–] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean, it comes from people who identify as Jewish and who support the state of Israel. How is that not correct?

Joe Biden cannot stop Israel. They have openly and repeatedly made known their plan to conquer Gaza. They're already allowing "settlers" (terrorists) in to attack the local Palestinians and steal their land. American citizens, including many who donate to AIPAC, are getting involved in land deals for the conquered territory.

The entire powerbase of the western world is either taking part in the genocide and/or profiting from it or unable to do the right thing because of the political and financial power of the former.

Even if that wasn't the case, Israel is the only friendly nation in the middle east for western powers. Iran regularly starts shit and Saudi Arabia committed 9/11 (which we ignore because they have oil). A Jewish state is much friendlier to the (mostly white, Christian) government of the US.

[–] Transform2942@lemmy.ml -1 points 11 months ago

Joe Biden could order a blockade on the single functioning port. Joe Biden's Treasury department could instantly destroy the occupier economy with sanctions, as they should be doing under US and international law. Joe Biden could signal to the Iranians and Hezbollah that Israel is no longer allowed to operate with impunity.

Don't make the mistake of confusing pretend impotence for true impotence.

I agree that the entire West is complicit in the genocide.

Regarding "friendly nations," what happened to make the Iranians unfriendly to the United States?