this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2025
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[–] wulrus@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

I wonder how much of the problem would be avoided if the top personal CO2 emissions per capita were capped at Scandinavian upper middle-class level since 1970 (imported CO2 included). Flying on vacation only occasionally, comfy car yes, SUV just if needed, nice modern house yes, wasteful lack of insulation no, buy what you need and treat yourself to some fashion, electronics etc. yes, mindless consumerism no. Just a comfy standard of living.

I wonder if the mindless consumerism in certain countries with insane emissions per capita makes up a big part of the problem, or if the sheer number of "decent standard of living" would have pushed us over the edge anyway.

[–] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 101 points 1 week ago

Well, yes. But that'd require fair, sensible distribution and use of available resources, and then how would we be able to support the ability of a handful of billionaires to subvert our democracies for their own gain? /s

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 75 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How does that quote go? Something like: the future is here, it's just unevenly distributed.

[–] OCATMBBL@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We wanted Star Trek, but we got Shadowrun.

[–] Kn1ghtDigital@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] baguettefish@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 week ago

it's called a phone and it can tiktok speed up version family guy + subway surfer + minecraft parkour

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[–] riskable@programming.dev 58 points 1 week ago (30 children)

I've seen this before. Last time I looked, it required that everyone live in cities with good public transportation. It also didn't factor in modern necessities like air conditioning (which will be actually necessary in many more parts of the world due to global warming).

Basically, for this to work, everyone needs to live in 2-bedroom apartments... Without air conditioning or anything like a desktop PC. You'd have a small refrigerator and heat your food with a microwave (and nothing else because stovetop and ovens use up too much energy).

It also makes huge assumptions about the availability of food, where it can be grown, and that all the necessary nutrients/fertilizer are already present in the soil and that transporting/processing things like grain is super short distance/cheap.

Also, communism. It requires functioning communism. That everyone will be ok with it and there will be no wars over resources/land.

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

It requires strict rationing. Everyone gets their fair share, and no one gets multiples of what other people get.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Not only that, but all 8.5 billion would also need to be willing to stop any "lifestyle inflation". It's not just about accepting it for a day, it's about adjusting to that being the norm for themselves and for their kids into the foreseeable future.

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[–] Carmakazi@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Kind of what I was getting at with my comments. The median standard of living doesn't have to be bad or even particularly uncomfortable, but it would require everyone who lives above that median to be knocked down to it and be okay with that. Which they won't. Meaning it will require force.

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[–] Almacca@aussie.zone 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We are living in a false-scarcity society when we could be living in a post-scarcity one.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This a thousand times. The world is throwing away resources at an astounding rate while people are sick, homeless and starving because of numbers on digital ledgers. We need to drop the whole idea of money. It's served its purpose, run its course and has since turned into a life on this planet threatening perversion.

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[–] Carmakazi@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (14 children)

What are "Decent Living Standards?"

I'd bet that they're at least one step down from what the usual Westerner is accustomed to.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I bet you are basing your concept of the "usual" Westerner on your own experience, and you might be surprised at how the actual average person lives even in the "West".

But to answer your question, the article defines decent living standards as:

nutritious food, modern housing, healthcare, education, electricity, clean-cooking stoves, sanitation systems, clothing, washing machines, refrigeration, heating/cooling, computers, mobile phones, internet, transit, etc.

Nutritious food is unavailable to an alarming number of Americans, transit is a mess and almost exclusively car-centered, healthcare and education are severely stratified along economic conditions, and almost everything on that list is a commodity. The USA has sanitation systems almost everywhere, but that's just because rich poop and poor poop all smells like poop. Wherever the wealthy can isolate their own sanitation, they do.

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 10 points 1 week ago

Out of that the US lacks health care for all, and it lacks transit pretty much everywhere outside of the large cities. Even the cities pretty much have nothing that reaches all the way out to the suburbs.

Where I live, you have to have a car to have a decent quality of life. People give up their homes before they give up their cars. So transportation needs to be addressed in order to have the quality of life promised. Most of the places that are food insecure are all about politics and bad people blocking food resources rather than the food not being available.

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[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

"I have a magical reality-changing glove. Should I change the nature of beings to want to share for the benefit of all? Nah, I'm gonna remove a random half of them from existence. It's clearly the ONLY thing I could possibly do to solve the problem! I'm so smart and awesome!"

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Changing people to share wouldn't stop environmental collapse caused by overpopulation.

He wanted people to see the improvement and freely choose to not repeat the problem.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago

Fine, then he can change it so people only need half the resources. There are innumerable other options that don't involve killing people when you have a reality altering glove.

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[–] sobchak@programming.dev 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm skeptical. I just skimmed the paper, but most of it seems to be taking a financial/macro-economic perspective without too much analysis on individual resources availability and the damage just current levels of output are causing to our environment/resources. I've seen other research that claim we are already over the carrying capacity of Earth, some say by a large margin (e.g. carrying capacity is 2 billion people). I'm pretty sure humans are already using (and degrading) the majority of Earth's arable land, for instance.

[–] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

This is a major flaw in science and basic economic comprehension. You could grow enough potatoes to feed the world enough calories with just the area of France. We could build huge apartment blocks surrounded by farmland and connected via tiny mono rails. We could build apartments and appliances and computers that last for a century. We could genetically engineer microalgae to taste like pancake butter. If we half the number of required workers, we'd save a mountain of resources on commute. We could design everything to be recyclable. Wind energy with Kites Power gives us near unlimited energy. Our footprint could be tiny but with the luxury of free time, learning, arts and living in a community and in nature.

We are nowhere near carrying capacity, we're just over because we waste so much on consumerism, planned obsolescence, unsustainable crops and artificial scarcity.

Our civilization is a fucking joke but science treats current conditions as if they were normal and immutable.

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[–] Kevo@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Does anybody have sources around this stat? I fully believe it, but I'd like to have references to point to for myself in the future

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

We have already enough resources for everyone. It is just that the 1% is hoarding all of it.

[–] PolyLlamaRous@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (4 children)
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[–] REDACTED@infosec.pub 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This somehow completely disregards the most critical side-effect of overpolulation esepcially when you calculate in dying oceans and trees.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

The sustainable capacity was calculated to be around 2 billion. This is not affected by food output.

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 9 points 1 week ago (8 children)

So farm less cattle and get away from fossil fuels.

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[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Our problem is distribution. It's a hard problem to solve but it's much better than the easy solution.

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