this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2025
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China is “set up to hit grand slams,” longtime Chinese energy expert David Fishman told Fortune. “The U.S., at best, can get on base.”

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[–] anyhow2503@lemmy.world 105 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

It's incredibly surprising that neglecting infrastructure investments for a mere few decades would have such an effect.

[–] truthfultemporarily@feddit.org 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Let's be fair: no one ever warned that this could happen.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (9 children)

No one ever warned us that our energy needs have been climbing steadily for decades, and we need to stop being afraid of nuclear power? Really?

What rock have you been hiding under?

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[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 79 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The race to what?

THE RACE TO WHAT MOTHERFUCKERS?

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

The thinking goes 'if we don't build Skynet first, then China will, so it's better we be in charge of the Terminators...'

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

We’re not in charge of shit. We’re the bullet blockers for the evil villains like thiel

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[–] nullpotential@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 3 points 1 week ago

This is actually their race, in an official capacity.

[–] falcunculus@jlai.lu 68 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

“This is a stark contrast to the U.S., where AI growth is increasingly tied to debates over data center power consumption and grid limitations”

Won't anyone rid us off this troublesome democracy, so that tech companies may grow in peace ?

[–] NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 26 points 2 weeks ago

Won't someone think of the tech bros?

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You don't need to change your political system to have sound energy policies.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Well, yes, we 100% do. But the above about shedding democracy was a joke. America needs to majorly reform our system. First and foremost by ending first past the post and the stranglehold of the two party system it enables.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

And then we need to nationalize our basic infrastructure. Electricity and Fiber first.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 68 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Articles like this are being pushed by AI CEOs and investors to force the US public to pay for grid upgrades to support their profit making. Socialize costs, privatize profits.

If, like most Americans, you've noticed an increase in your electric rates in the last year it is in no small part due to the increased demand put on the system by AI data centers. You're already paying more to prop this shit up because they're chasing gains with no regard to efficiency.

[–] BakerBagel@midwest.social 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

To be fair though, pur grid is absolutely ass and held together by electrical tape and broken dreams. Because it turns out apending the 40 years gutting the public sector of everything useful and not doing proper maintainence left the US unable to adapt. I apend a lot of time in Lakewood Ohio, a trendy and high density suburb of Cleveland, and they have had weekly blackouts all year because First Energy (of corruption infamy) has refused to do the necessary upkeep.

Privatizing our utilities was a mistake

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

We need a word for the social lies that capitalism has existed on for so long

Capitalism is not efficient, in fact it is rent seeking and therefore inherently corrupt and wasteful

Capitalism isn't the only answer, and it isn't even the best current answer

The free market is not frictionless and omniscient, as it is assumed in ALL models, DECADES of market statistics prove this conclusively yet this is still a cornerstone of ALL arguments in favor of capitalism

Capitalism isn't the single source that has lifted the most people out of poverty, that is food and healtcare CHARITY programs.

It is outdated, destructive, and benefits the most vicious and cruel narcissists more than anyone.

Yet 90% of you will defend it to the death, even here on lemmy

[–] FragrantGarden@lemmy.today 4 points 2 weeks ago

All while being the same asswipes gobbling up such an obscene amount of gdp that the public can't possibly pay it.

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[–] baconmonsta@piefed.social 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

Coal use isn’t cast as a sign of villainy, as it would be among some circles in the U.S. – it’s simply seen as outdated. This pragmatic framing, Fishman argued, allows policymakers to focus on efficiency and results rather than political battles.

There's truly something for western politicians to learn from this

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 32 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

Also: China’s construction of new coal-power plants ‘reached 10-year high’ in 2024

It doesn't seem like this "AI expert" knows a lot about anything. Perhaps he is too high on his own supply, getting all his knowledge from hallucinating chatbots.

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[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

I don't think the GOP is racing to build coal plants. They just use coal as a political tool to win votes. And when they win, the idiots that think Republicans are going to save their coal jobs get what they deserved.

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[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

China decided to end their dependence on foreign fossil fuels.

The USA decided to double down on oil.

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

While China has invested enormously in renewable energy, they have also invested enormously in fossil fuels.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, they are ramping up energy production as a whole.

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[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

China decided to end their dependence on fossil fuels, and I decided to retire by age 45. Me and China are about equally close to achieving our goals.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They said "foreign" fossil fuels, not fossil fuels in general.

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[–] CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago

They do reach every five year plan they put in place, especially regarding energy where they're even in advance. Wth are you talking about?

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[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

This is all based on the assumption that AI will need exponential power.

It will not.

  • AI is a bubble.

  • Even if it isn't, fab capacity is limited.

  • The actual 'AI' market is racing to the bottom with smaller, task focused models.

  • A bunch of reproduced papers (like bitnet, and sparsity schemes) that reduce power exponentially are just waiting for someone to try a larger test.

  • They're slowly getting less 'dumbly implemented' so they can actually reference real info for tasks.

  • Alltogether... that means inference moves to smartphones and PCs.

This is just the finance crowd parroting Altman. Not that the US doesnt need a better energy grid like China, but the justification (AI scaling) is built on lies that aren't going to happen.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

But! Zuck said they recently saw AI able to work on tasks that involve improving the software that manages AI! He said that means we are not far from super intelligence!

the extrapolation these guys make without new paradigm’s in mind is evidence of a wall and bubble for me

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The irony is Zuck shuttered the absolute best asset they have: the Llama team.

Over one experimental failure trying to copy Deepseek. Which, you know, is normal in research, but at the same time was a pretty conservative choice instead of trying a new paper.

Zuck's a fickle coward who would say and do anything to hide his insecurity.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

While AI (as it is currently done) is a bubble,

the article is still rather interesting. It discusses that China's grid is superior because it has state backing, instead of being privately owned (and therefore short-sighted). Which is true, and America has a lesson to learn from that, if it wants to have a part of the future.

By the way, the same goes for public infrastructure and housing. The state should invest heavily in these and provide them efficiently as a community service long-term, instead of relying on private parties to take care of these needs.

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[–] zarathustra0@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

The lazy western capitalists being out-competed at their own game, you say?

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[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Who'd have thought that not letting your infrastructure rot would put one in a better position to do infrastructure stuff? Not us, because planning ahead is for poors and commiesbateman-ontological

[–] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

So they want us to foot the bill to upgrade our power grid, and then grind it to a fucking halt again in an effort to create better anime big-tiddy goth gf avatars and shitty electro music?

[–] Marthirial@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

No worries. AI will figure out a way out of our energy mess by consuming Immense amounts of ener.... WAIT...

[–] ulu_mulu@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago

I think Trump open war against them helps, I mean, if you cut them our of critical supply, you push them to develop their own, they're not stupid.

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

The next time a bootlicker demands you present proof of the failings of capitalism, just point out what profit incentive does to a nation's power grid

They won't care or listen of course, but at least you can make others aware of their spurious arguments

America is out of the race as a technological leader, we have crippled our education on all levels for half a century, are a land of FAMOUSLY anti-intellectual citizens, and have offshored all off our RnD and manufacturing, ignored infrastructure collapse and elected a facts-optional government

And every single hammer blow over the last 50 years to our nation's independence and capability was signed by repugnicunt hands all under the banner of patriotism and greatness

And we can't even organize a protest to keep them from deporting American citizens with no due process.

I hope all of you Genocide Joe memers a terrible, lonely, and complicated rest of your lives

[–] Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 week ago

The "genocide Joe memers" forcing the Democrats to be unrepentant capitalist mass murders who hate their own voter base:

[–] mattyroses@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 week ago

Sorry your rainbow nationalist bootlicking isn't turning out how you wanted . . . but to be fair, any cursory look at history would tell you that was gonna happen.

Every one of those hammer blows had massive support from the leadership of the Democratic Party which is still controlling the party.

[–] adminofoz@lemmy.cafe 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Ahhh yes, this is the meme lord's fault. Who could forget the meme czar leading our nation into darkness under the promise of dankness.

GTFO... blaming some kids for a 50+ year failure of the political classes. Maybe the issue is, instead of blaming the politicians we all listen to them when they say its the [kids,boomers,libs,leftists,altright,conservatives,mexicans,europeans,russians,chinese] fault.

Pick a different scapegoat. Your argument sucks.

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[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

And what kind of "grand slam" are we talking about? I know whatever it is they want it real bad, but to you're average human being: is filing out tps reports with 90 percent accuracy really that important?

[–] RandAlThor@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

China has been ramping up building of coal power plants, many of which are operating at 50% capacity: https://lemmy.ca/post/49779092

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