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Trump says Putin launching massive strike on Ukraine is ‘what anybody would do’ (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 months ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

54 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Donald Trump has said Vladimir Putin was “doing what anybody would do” after Russia launched a massive missile and drone strike on Ukraine days after the US cut off vital intelligence and military aid to Kyiv.

Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office on Friday Trump said he finds it “easier” to work with Russia than Ukraine and that Putin “wants to end the war”.

“I’m finding it more difficult, frankly, to deal with Ukraine. And they don’t have the cards,” Trump said. “In terms of getting a final settlement, it may be easier dealing with Russia.”

Asked whether the Russian leader was taking advantage of the pause in US intelligence sharing and military aid to Ukraine, Trump replied: “I actually think he is doing what anybody else would do.”

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[–] otto@sh.itjust.works -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Transaction: it is what he would do if he thought I could get away with it. Because Trump is the biggest, and most massive piece of shit ever to exist since Hitler.

So, if you would do that too, you are also that big of a piece of shit.

It has been my observation in life that those who blame others for their own actions simply hope others would do that thing in order to make their own transgressions seem more palatable.

Of course, this is an entire series of logical fallacies on top of the fact that most people aren’t pieces of shit.

In short, it’s an obvious lie, and anyone who is pulled in by this obvious lie is a piece of shit just like Trump.

[–] tonytins@pawb.social -1 points 3 months ago

If you're evil, maybe.

[–] wirebeads@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I mean, if Putin just wants to stop fighting, he could completely just you know: stop fucking fighting.

He’s the invader. He’s the fucking aggressor. Ukraine would happily stop fighting as they don’t want to fight.

Donald Trump is top tier fucking stupid and top tier Russian asset.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, if Putin just wants to stop fighting, he could completely just you know: stop fucking fighting.

I cannot imagine a world in which Russia withdraws from the front lines and Ukrainian militants just call it a day. Way too much blood on the ground for people to just turn themselves off and call it done.

If Putin extended an offer that didn't involve him eating the barrel of his own gun, Zelenskyy's own guys would lynch him for taking it.

[–] grue@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

Well, obviously Ukraine would chase the invaders back to the pre-2014 borders and then stop.

[–] Placebonickname@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Russia almost cannot “stop” if it means getting nothing. If they do Putin will lose support and money from his oligarchs/bitches.

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[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, sometimes I'm just standing in the shower in the morning planning out my day and I think to myself, "I should attack Ukraine." /s

[–] Placebonickname@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

I play Risk with my friends alot. Trust me. Eurasia cannot be held…

[–] GrymEdm@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Traitors one and all and history will remember them as such. I'm Canadian and as angry as I am about the huge mess happening between my country and the USA, I'm even angrier about Ukraine. At least Canadians aren't being killed or having tens of thousands of our children stolen away. I cannot understand the eagerness with which MAGA has embraced Putin. Looking at history until now, I never thought siding with a dictatorial warmongering Russia would be a core Republican value.

[–] JSocial@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 months ago

2 days. That account you in the comments are arguing with is 2 days old.

[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

“I’m finding it more difficult, frankly, to deal with Ukraine. And they don’t have the cards,” Trump said. “In terms of getting a final settlement, it may be easier dealing with Russia.”

It's infuriating how stupid he is. Just "my feelings tell me to do X" nonstop, every day, like cultured cells responding to a stimulus shock.

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)

It’s infuriating how stupid he is.

How so? Trump is stupid yes but in regards to this? Zelenskyy is too far into "to the last Ukrainian" camp.

Atleast Putin attempted to force realistic (and rather lenient) terms on Ukraine way back in 2022, meanwhile Zelenskyy has given out his ten point peace nonsense for years.

[–] MyFairJulia@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You mean terms like „I‘ll stop hurting you if you give me more land and don‘t ask for help from the west.“?

Give me a break!

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Nope, Ukraine would have kept all of its land had they accepted Putin's offer in 2022. Even the status of Crimea was to be negotiable after 10-15 years.

Putin's peace treaty would have the US and the UK, as guarantors, who were obliged to assist Ukraine in case of aggression against it.

Try again.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Nope, Ukraine would have kept all of its land had they accepted Putin’s offer in 2022. Even the status of Crimea was to be negotiable after 10-15 years.

Right, but Crimea is Ukraine's land which Russia invaded and stole in 2014. So that's not letting Ukraine have all its land is it? It's letting Ukraine keep bits of land you haven't stolen yet. Can you see how that might not seem very reasonable?

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Take it back then. Oh wait Ukraine tried and is failing to that. Instead they have lost a larger portion of their country. Ever heard of the sunk cost fallacy? Ukraine should take the loss and make peace before more people sadly die from this horrible war.

[–] MyFairJulia@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And what would Ukraine have to give Putin in return? The thing is Putin started the war! Putin started the war because Ukraine was daring to enter NATO which you could literally only hate if you actually wanted to fuck with some country!

Putins offer can be boiled down to „If you don‘t tattle to the teacher, i will stop punching you. Perhaps i could give you back your iPod when you graduate high school if you ask me nicely then.“

What the fuck is that kind of a bullshit deal? This could only be beaten if another bully agrees with the first bully to take your phone and leave the iPod and both of them will not beat them into the hospital. Oh wait…

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

And what would Ukraine have to give Putin in return? The thing is Putin started the war! Putin started the war because Ukraine was daring to enter NATO which you could literally only hate if you actually wanted to fuck with some country!

Putin's reasons for starting the invasion was multifold. Ukraine was to cease NATO membership plans; downsize its military forces; forbid foreign countries from hosting military bases; and pay reparations. In return, Ukraine would be allowed to keep all of its territory, Crimea would be negotiable after 10-15 years, they would be allowed to join the EU, AND Russia would allow several NATO members to guarantee Ukraine's soveriengty. This means that Ukraine would get the main benefit of joining NATO (protection) without the ability to act as a base for NATO soldiers and weapons that can be used for offensive purposes against Russia.

NATO looked like the next coming of the Axis powers to Russia and can you blame them? It practically surrounded them. Perhaps you would be more understanding if you would think about what if Mexico, Cuba, and Canada was part of the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War? You can say that this is Russian propaganda and you can be right but you forget that Russia and its people unironically believe in their own propaganda that NATO is out to get them.

TLDR: Russia would have allowed Ukraine to invoke Article 5 if invaded but not base NATO weapons and soldiers during peacetime that can be used for offensive purposes.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

NATO looked like the next coming of the Axis powers to Russia and can you blame them?

Yes?

And as for the rest: Putin has a long and sordid history of ignoring treaties with former parts of the USSR. He dangles the carrot and then hits with the stick if any of the soviet states actually try to eat it.

Russia wants Ukraine to become another Belarus or Georgia. Ukraine does not want that. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and does not want to invade Russia or take its land. Neither does NATO.

After that, your argument completely falls apart. It’s no more than the excuse, but has no grounding in reality.

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe Ukraine should not act like Georgia. I.E, conducing massacres against civilians during a civil war.

Ukraine has not been sovereign since 2014 imo. The democratically elected government got overthrown by a violent coup leading to massive amounts of unrest in Eastern Ukraine leading to this new illegitimate government conducting massacres like the Victory Day Massacre where they fired into an entire crowd.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You don’t get out much, do you?

The only place that narrative is still accepted is inside Russia.

Oh, and it’s not a civil war when one of the combatants is significantly made up of foreigners from Russia.

Next thing you know, you’ll be saying that Ukraine is really just a disputed Russian territory because they rejected their democratically elected Russian selected leader.

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Even Ukraine admitted that the vast majority of Separatists were Ukrainians. The Victory Day Massacre occured before Girkin's intervention. Protestors showed their passports to Vice News showing that they were in fact Ukrainian. Do you want me to PM you the video of the AFU and Azov firing into a crowd of unarmed protestors? People also like to quote Girkin to prove that Russia started the War in the Donbas forgetting the rest of the quote. He acknowledged the movement started before he intervened. What he did say is that it would have been crushed without his support naming the Victory Day Massacre as evidence for this where the AFU put down unrest by simply shooting everyone in the crowd. Russia did provide support to them. Yes. They provided intellgence and leadership with Girkin becoming the leader of the DPR. Russia provided weapons. But the movement was ultimately organic. Russian forces did not storm Ukraine in any significant number until 2015 when they thrown BTGs into Ukraine to stem the tide when DPR and LPR forces were being pushed back.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I’m curious: what’s your opinion on China’s continually improving relationship with Kazakhstan, and their plans to sever ties with Russia and become a full fledged partner in the belt and road?

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

China and Kazakhstan are sovereign countries who can do whatever they want.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 months ago

And there it is.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Ukraine was to cease NATO membership plans; downsize its military forces; forbid foreign countries from hosting military bases; and pay reparations.

That's none of Putin's fucking business. Ukraine is a sovereign country that can make its own decisions about its future. If your bullshit reasoning is reasonable, if Putin takes Ukraine fully are you justifying Putin invading Poland and Romania for being in NATO with foreign miltary bases too?

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It stopped being a sovereign nation after the illegitimate coup which occured in 2014.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yanukovych was a Putin laptop that was thrown out by the citizenry as well as the Ukrainian military. You'll find Yanukovych in Russia now, but I probably don't have to tell you that. You're probably closer to him than I am.

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yanukovych was a Putin laptop that was thrown out by the citizenry as well as the Ukrainian military. You’ll find Yanukovych in Russia now, but I probably don’t have to tell you that. You’re probably closer to him than I am.

He was thrown out due to a false flag operation where pro-maidan snipers shot their own protestors in order to incite public backlash against Yanukovych.

This has been confirmed by several hundred witness testimonies including wounded protestors, 2,000 videos, and 6,000 photos, 30 gigabytes of radio intercepts, and forensic examinations.

Yeah, I would be getting the fuck out of dodge and be escaping to Russia too if far right snipers shot their own fellow protestors and managed to convince the populace including your own armed forces that it was you who done it.

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[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ukraine was at peace in 2014 before Russia invaded. The only reason there is not peace is because of Putin.

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No they weren't. Before the annexation of Crimea, Ukraine underwent a violent coup against the democratically elected government where Ukrainian ultranationalists burned down an entire building filled with dozens of unarmed protestors who were against this illegitimate coup conducted by said ultranationalists.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ukraine underwent a violent coup against the democratically elected government

Yanukovych was a Putin puppet that turned armed forces against unarmed civilians. The armed forces themselves turned on Yanukovych. That tells you how bad he was for Ukraine. If you're looking for Yanukovych now, you'll find him in Russia. I wonder why...

[–] NimdaQA@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yanukovych was a Putin puppet that turned armed forces against unarmed civilians. The armed forces themselves turned on Yanukovych.

What happened was that pro-maidan snipers shot their own protestors and then blame it on the government in a false flag operation.

Oh and have a fun time trying to prove that several hundred witness testimonies, 2,000 videos, and 6,000 photos, and 30 gigabytes of radio intercepts are Russian propaganda.

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[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz -1 points 3 months ago

Guy would have sided with Hitler. Why won't Britain surrender, Hitler just wants to end the war!

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

From an American:

Hey Europe, fucking pay attention. We are switching sides. Pax Americana is done. This isn’t the country you thought you knew. We’re going to walk noisy as fuck and carry a stick we’ve whittled away because we wanted to sell parts off of it.

Please don’t assume that everything is going to be alright. It’s not. I don’t want to see you guys go down with us.

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[–] DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee -1 points 3 months ago

Why does Trump think he has any say in a peace deal now that he ended support to Ukraine? It's not up to him anymore. He chose to step down

[–] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

So 9/11 was what now? What a fucktard.

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