Ask Lemmy

That time my cousin and aunt made a scene the first night in the funeral home after my mom died. That's irreparable because

1. My mom died that fucking day, 2 years after my dad and they were supposed to all be close.
2. It was due to my personal life (my soon-to-be-wife). To add some context: she is a foreigner so there is a lot of racism and a bit of classism.
3. Her only living sister.
4. It's been 6 months and they haven't contacted me, apologized or anything,

Don't get me wrong. They are forgiven, but it hurts and it will hurt for the rest of my life so I don't be able to ever open the door for them to come back into my life.

For me, it’s really just a lack of actual remorse or effort to fix things. As long as they’re willing to demonstrate they recognize what they did and will work to be better (and it’s not a recurring pattern), we’re cool.

If people are truly sorry and have taken steps to make sure that what they did will never happen again, they are eligible for forgiveness of anything.

The only time something would become unforgivable is if it were done with intentional malice or becomes a pattern of behavior. I'm willing to forgive quiet a bit, if the harm an action caused was not the intent. When it becomes the intent, such as physical violence or repeated trauma, that's where I take a hard line and will not forgive. For less spectacular transgressions, repeat events are where things become unforgivable. I am willing to give grace on that more because I'm bad about not communicating to others how their actions hurt me, but if we've talked about how their behavior is a problem and they keep doing it? No sorry, we're done.

Granting forgiveness isn't about them, it's about you letting go of the hurt. It doesn't mean things necessarily just go back to the way they were, it means things can move onto the next thing. It's about taking that weight off your soul.

I see a lot of people letting their trauma define them. Let the shit drop and grow flowers. Easier said than done, but I think it's still easier than not doing it.

When they do the exact same thing after you already forgave them before.

Also when they were given plenty of warning before doing whatever they did.

So, for both cases, it's when they show that they are OK with breaking your trust because they expect to be forgiven afterwards.

It's not about "forgiveness", it's about whether the mistakes can be undone.

Consider you accidentally insult somebody. That can be undone by apologizing.

What if you murder somebody? That can never be undone.

Probably dishonesty. Coworker threw away thousands of dollars worth of my department's equipment and then lied to me about it. I know she was just repeating her boss, but she knew it was a lie. I'll hold a grudge against both of those removed forever!

Two former friends hit on my husband - not just flirty, pretty seriously with an expectation of more. They're both out forever!

I've forgiven way too much to people than I should ever have in the first place and I allowed them to get away with too much than they ever should.

To me, someone or something becomes unforgivable, when you've presented them perfect opportunities or chances to make up for their fuck up. Continual and repetitious fuck ups, really sets in stone how not-so-apologetic someone is that has made the mistakes. Because in come the excuses, in come the sob stories, in come the laundry list of reasons .etc

It becomes too much, especially if someone fucks something up for you or someone else in a colossal way. These days, if you want to be sorry for something, you don't fucking do it again. That's all and it depends on what it is.

Things that betray trust are very hard for me to let go. Theft, backstabbing, lies, etc. If I can't trust you, I can't hang out with you.

I'm really glad you at least partially qualified what you mean by forgiveness. Or at least what you do not mean by it. The type of forgiveness I think you're trying to suggest is more of an internal process. It's not really about the other person at all. For example, there are some family members of murder victims who say they have forgiven the killer. They are not saying the killer deserves to go free. They're just saying they don't want to carry that hatred through the rest of their lives. By that definition, I don't think any of us know what we might be able to let go of.

If they go out of their way to hurt you, or are so indifferent about you that they hurt you in the process of doing something else and decide they don't care.

People who value you and your feelings so little that they would do either are not worth keeping around, and certainly aren't worth your effort emotionally to be able to forgive

When the same attempts to set healthy boundaries with that person are ignored repeatedly. Sure, give them a chance to try and adjust their behavior if the relationship is otherwise valuable.

But after you are sure that you have been consistent and clear for a reasonable amount of time and the boundaries still get invaded?

Bye, Felicia.

The second time they do it. You get one chance to do some mild shit and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Of course, I don't announce it but I keep tabs.

When criticism of the act gets enough likes on Lemmy and/or Reddit—that's when I know what to think.

I can forgive mistakes and bad judgment, but if you intentionally do something that makes me lose trust and respect, it’s going to be hard to earn that back. If you lie to me, for example, I don’t see it as a one-time action - it reveals something about the kind of person you are. Saying you won’t do it again doesn’t mean much after you've already shown it’s something you’ve been doing up to this point.

I don’t believe in free will, so when I see someone act this way, I don’t even really blame them. I don’t see it as a conscious decision, but more as a behavior they’re helplessly repeating. And people rarely change that kind of behavior unless the motivation comes from within - not from outside pressure.

Hmmmm probably a lot of things, but first to mind is animal cruelty

Nothing.

I could cut ties with a person over the most trivial of things, but as a consequentialist I would be betraying logic by labelling somebody as unforgiveable.

That is not to say that I would ever let a person go without consequences, far from it.

Forgiveness is always possible, although if someone hits me with DARVO, I'm going to forever filter their behavior through a check before helping them. It's sorta amazing what we can go through and forgive after, but I guess the misnomer is that the apology is for them and not ourselves.

Intentionally did something dangerous that you know will get people hurt with a slightest mistake. Like driving recklessly, or pushing others in a huge crowd. There's no amount of sorry will make me believe you're remorseful, you're only sorry because stuff that will happen happened.

Ohh and embezzlement of public fund. Fuck off with that crocodile tear.

I am not sure - this is a great question though - at what point do you let it keep harming you instead of letting it go? All the complicated social systems of revenge and avenging and reparation built around this.

Anything done in person with absolute disrespect and malice

Never.

Matthew 18:21-35

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times. “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay what you owe.’ So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,until he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”