Yeah, honestly I will have to think about this a bit more and try to engage with others to see how to proceed. I talked with some of the organizers behind Safe AI Philippines about field building, and it definitely is difficult to get folks to engage given how new it all is.

I'm also going to look at some of the other organizations like All Tech Is Human to see how they do it as well, and maybe reach out to some of the organizations that do research in political economy in general, and see if they would be interested in doing work in AI's relationship to political economy.

Yeah I guess I didn’t quite think about EFF but I guess there are definitely some things to learn from them. I always was under the impression that they were more libertarian than anything regardless if it meant libertarian left or libertarian right, but ultimately any move towards decentralized networks makes it easier for us to organize (as in more independence from big tech, not necessarily a bunch of disparate platforms)

I was honestly hoping to get a lot of people interested in AI safety and radicalize them that way or find like minded people to join. I’m not sure how familiar you are with the AI safety community, but from my understanding there is a LOT of potential for radicalization. The amount of times that people independently come to the conclusion that the profit motive is a big barrier is honestly quite pleasantly surprising from normies. However, they just can’t find a solution since they can’t see past capitalism. I still consider myself a baby ML in a lot of ways, but talking to people who spin their wheels around trying to make capitalism and safe AI compatible has only made me even more convinced that socialism is the right answer.

Honestly if you have ideas in getting others on the left to be more on board, I’m all ears! I think we have one of the most opportune moments to positively influence what is likely to be the most influential technology in this generation. Even if we can just get minor concessions from the ruling class, that would be more than worth it. We don’t even need to start that big, just something like a reading or discussion group or something for now

I honestly never thought of it that way before, but now that you say it, it definitely makes a lot of sense why controlling the communication means is so critical for class rule.

I've heard that China is developing 6G technology and that it is ahead of US and Western development, so it would be interesting how that changes the class power dynamic globally. Maybe that's why there was the whole 5G Huawei scare in Europe in 2020 or whatever. It also situates the entire DPRK internet thing too. I'll definitely have to think about this whole thing about controlling the means of communication more though.

I guess my relative lack of knowledge in this area is a bit reason why I left the section on communication somewhat vague as opposed to suggesting specific providers

Thank you! It would be interesting to see how a socialist AI differs from a capitalist AI

Yeah, I'm hoping that there are some out there. Right now there are a lot of disparate organizations with their local focus on AI safety (AI safety Africa, Safe AI Philippines, etc.) that I can think of the top of my head, but nothing that encompasses a principled anti imperialist left perspective to my knowledge.

The World AI Cooperation Organization (WAICO) is an interesting start, but that is at the level of nation states and it is not explicitly anti imperialist in nature, but it would be super cool to have some cooperation as it is better than nothing lol

Thank you! I've not heard of Xnet but it looks cool from a quick scan of its website.

I admittedly have not thought that much about the question of freedom of speech under a communist framework, so I don't want to make too many comments on it (no investigation, no right to speak type of thing). If you could explain a bit more your stance on the issue, that'd be helpful.

That said, I am a bit confused about your comment on not using the Internet and other modes of communication. My kneejerk reaction is that it's not something that can be realistically 'solved' or whatever. Take personal precautions I guess? If you wouldn't mind clarifying what you mean a bit more here, maybe I could give a better response?

Hello my fellow ABCml! I agree with your points about material conditions changing people’s perception of reality. A visit to China when I was younger was what really kicked off my disillusionment with liberalism and got me questioning my old anti-China views haha. There are very few instances of my worldview being so completely shattered by a simple visit, and China wasn’t even that developed back then. Goes to show you how strong the western media brainwashing is and how the manufacturing consent machine can ironically make Westerners much more ignorant of the world, unlike what the typical liberal view of there being “free and independent media” in the West. Curious if you also had a similar deprogramming moment or if you have always been an ML?

The other big part of whether one enjoys their visit to China is if they speak the language. By virtue of having a Chinese face, people are going to default to speaking in Chinese. I’ve met a few ABCs who don’t speak Chinese, so when they visited China, they felt very uncomfortable. I am definitely still working on my Chinese and wouldn’t consider myself fluent, but I can definitely say that as my Chinese has gotten better, my experience in China has improved too.

If there is one thing that I find weird, it’s that some people visit China and still leave convinced that the West and liberalism is superior to socialism. They have repeatedly visited, so it’s not like they can’t see the massive improvements in society, chalking it up to China adopting capitalism. Of course, these same people will blame anything they don’t like about China to communism, but I guess cognitive dissonance is the norm for liberals lol

One final big benefit of being a pro-China ML is watching China’s rise in recent years and actually feeling excited about it. Even though implementation may not have been perfect, broadly speaking Socialism with Chinese Characteristics has vindicated Deng Xiaoping’s claim on how socialism in the final analysis develops the productive forces more rapidly than capitalism. While there are obviously a lot of negative things going on in the world, China’s rise has not been one of them. It’s both hilarious and sad to see liberals be in full blown panic as capitalism runs into crisis and socialism has shown itself to be a superior mode of production. Chinese libs who spent a lot of energy sucking up to the West and trying to immigrate here for the “freedom” and who have spent a lot of time looking down on their fellow Chinese who are more supportive of the government are now realizing that the illusion of freedom in the West is just that, an illusion. At least some of them are slowly changing their minds, so that’s good I guess.

Overall, I’m optimistic for China’s future and the future of Chinese people all over the world. 中华人民共和国万岁！

Ooh I’ve been waiting for this question for awhile!

I’m actually a Chinese diaspora (hence my username, which stands for American-Born Chinese Marxist-Leninist). (For those who aren’t familiar, the term ABC refers to Chinese Americans who are born in the United States.)

In my experience, the more lib and anti-China the person is, the more cringe they get. This applies to Chinese, both mainland and diaspora. In general, if you meet Chinese abroad, they are more likely than your average person in China itself to be a liberal (due to all the normal reasons, such as being more likely to be of a bourgeois background, Western education, etc)

I’ve met some Chinese libs who glaze Japan and talk about how they hate the “CCP” 🙄 These people overall seem to lead unhappy lives given the amount of cognitive dissonance they have to deal with when trying to explain how it is China is able to have much better public transport compared to the US for example lol

The diaspora are not much better either. I have unfortunately never met another fellow ABC that actually has based politics on China. They overwhelmingly treat the CPC with contempt and complain about “authoritarianism” and how they are so glad their family left China and other weird stuff. Many of them in university joined the Taiwanese club or whatever since they felt ashamed to be descended from mainland Chinese immigrants 🤦‍♂️

Speaking of Taiwan, I’ve noticed that Taiwanese locals and diaspora almost universally have this anti mainland China attitude. I’ve met quite a few of them and when I asked them if they’ve ever been to the mainland, they all said no and all seem like they are quite scared of the idea of even doing so. They seem quite uncomfortable when I tell them they should and that mainland China is actually quite nice to visit.

Similar cringe comes from Hong Kong diaspora. I met one guy who was born and raised in Hong Kong until 2019, right around the protests, and his family moved to the United Kingdom after that. He could only complain about how bad life in the UK is and how he always dreaded having to go back home, but he still views China negatively. I honestly don’t know if I should feel sorry or if I should just laugh as these people increasingly feel “oppressed” about Hong Kong and its development.

Finally, the part where I talk about Chinese in China! While there are plenty of people who are not particularly political, there were some who were quite vocal about their views and were willing to discuss them with me. These people overwhelmingly supported the government and were not afraid of telling the truth on how they viewed China’s development. Unlike the other groups mentioned above, these Chinese locals that I talked to actually have nuanced and informed views on the CPC and China in general. Their support of the government is grounded in reality, contrary to the average liberal who wants to dismiss them all as “brainwashed by the CCP”, so conversations with them are actually normal lol. My enthusiasm and optimism surrounding China is actually matched here.

Another fun thing is watching other people being thrown for a loop when I tell them that I am a pro-China Chinese American. Many people falsely assume that I am Chinese Chinese when they first meet me and talk in a mildly condescending manner, only to suddenly realize I’m an American and switch to being more normal. Of course, at this point I know that they don’t view Chinese people with respect so the conversations become slightly tense and awkward, as well as being aware that they view me as brainwashed for having a pro-China view.

Of course, the most important thing to remember is that these are just generalizations. I’m sure there are plenty of ABCs who are like me, but refuse to speak up about their pro-China views for fear of being ostracized, just as there are probably plenty of cringe West worshipping libs living in China. At the end of the day, people have different opinions. Some are happy and have positive outlooks, others don’t.

All in all, I’m very happy that Chinese in China are able to appreciate the progress made under the leadership of the CPC. Given how isolated people like me are politically in the US, I think I honestly should just move to China in the future at this point and join my comrades but we’ll see I guess lol