xiaohongshu

It’s not even “not finding the money”, the economics is far simpler than that, and as you said, neoliberal in nature. It is indeed an IMF mantra to the developing countries (they even have a name for it: “middle income trap”) that it’s funny to see people supporting it just because it’s China lol.

So much of China’s economy has been geared towards exports of cheap goods and services to “wealthy” foreign countries that allocation of labor and resources toward social services and domestic economy has been reciprocally constrained.

It’s one of the reasons why I keep talking about transition towards a domestic consumption model, because the misallocation of capital and resources (and the corresponding wealth inequality) do end up having an impact on your average working people in China. Who would’ve thought!

I do not know how Hexbear arrives at these strange positions honestly, no neoliberal reforms are not justifiable under any circumstance.

Still can’t get over the fact that people are supporting neoliberalism just because it’s China lol.

No theory, no material analysis, just black and white thinking. Typical Western leftists behavior that I should have gotten used to by now.

Sorry this is just cope.

China is increasing its retirement age and not giving healthcare and welfare to the people because their economy has been heavily geared towards exporting cheap goods and services to Western imperialist countries (with no signs of reducing such dependencies) instead of allocating labor and resources toward the social services required to take care of 1.4 billion people.

Funny to see people supporting neoliberalism here just because it’s China lol.

As I said, working exhausting long hours and without free healthcare and social safety nets are not only going to make your youth miserable, they add substantial mental and physical toll of your life.

I think most of you young people don’t realize that while it’s fun to wreck your body when you’re young, it will be until you reach your late 30s and 40s that all the physical strains (not to mention the mental and emotional toll) begin to manifest in many different ways that could cripple an otherwise normal life.

Retiring at 55-60 but body is already wrecked, and have to use up all your savings to pay for all sorts of health issues? No thanks.

Xi’s daughter graduated from Harvard more than a decade ago.

There have been rumors of her returning to the US in the last few years but none of that are substantiated.

But yes they are all part of the elite circle. She went to Hangzhou Foreign Language School which is an international school where the most powerful send their kids to, most of them would end up in top tier Western universities.

Would have agreed with you if it weren’t for the fact that the retirement age is also being raised in China starting January 1st, 2025.

You probably have seen my writings before, still too neoliberal brained, will do anything other than raising wages and giving welfare to people, etc. I won’t repeat all of that lol. So we’ll see how much longer China is going to keep up with these policies.

China at least cares about their workers enjoying some form of healthy retirement.

Love the sentence lol. If only retirees are also treated with free healthcare, so you know, they can actually retire without having to worry about burning through their retirement funds.

The trick really is to not get sick after retirement, then you should be able to live quite well (depends on how much pension you have paid during your working years).

Hahahaha so much FREEDOM

No offense, I’ve lived in both the West and in China, I’m pretty sure I’ve got a better perspective than most people here, even though you are welcome to call me biased.

I don’t think you realize that being in close proximity to the USSR dictated how much better the working conditions are in the soc dem European states, even 35 years after its collapse and most of those countries are declining and have fully mutated into neoliberal imperialist states as you’ve said. The whole point that is in spite of all this, welfare is still so much better than China that claims to be socialist.

Also, very much doubt that most people here who have lived in the West and say they prefer to live in China will easily survive the 内卷 (involution) in China. When you hear “expats” talk about China, know that they usually work for some multinational corporations that automatically place them among the top 0.1% income earners in China and are essentially living like kings there. Their kids go to international schools and do not have to compete with the rest of the kids for gaokao.

I get that many people here are cynical or just want to be contrarian, but seriously think about trading away free healthcare and social safety nets and one month of vacation every year, just to work like a dog with little to no recreation time in your 20s and 30s, having to report to your supervisor on every Sunday instead of having the luxury of switching off for the weekend.

Maybe you enjoy the hustling and grinding, in which case, good for you, but I assure you that most people don’t. Call me lazy or whatever, I don’t care lol!

To your first question, 996 was already banned by the Supreme Court back in 2021!

All the guilty internet companies “welcomed” the court ruling and announced that overtime is only “on a voluntary basis” and will be “properly compensated”.

And yet the working hours have only gone up since 2021. In fact, just earlier this year, the government tried again to enforce an 8-hour work day because the EU threatened to ban Chinese goods with the EU Forced Labour Regulations, a whole bunch of manufacturing firms again “welcomed” the policy, and yet nothing seems to have happened afterwards.

There are a few factors behind why nothing much has changed, and they’re mostly related to motivation and enforcement issue:

1. There is split opinion on the decision among employees - while some see long work hours appropriately as exploitation, others see overtime wages (150-200% hourly rate) as their way to make enough money and leave the company early. Employment is mostly transient with these companies, and for many people, you want to earn as much money as you can in your 20s and maybe even early 30s when you’re still physically capable, hoping that you could retire earlier than your peers, or earn enough to start your own business.
2. “Voluntary coercion” - with so much unemployment around, employees are more afraid of losing their jobs and fear that not “volunteering” for overtime would mark you as an unproductive worker to be laid off in the next cycle. In China, the competition is so intense that for most jobs (as you’ve said, but it’s not perceived that way), you are replaceable. You’d rather grind hard to keep your job than to lose it altogether, because there is no social safety net when you’re unemployed (hence Chinese households prefer save than to consume, to prepare for such unfortunate incidents).
3. The government depends on private corporations especially during economic downturn - with many budding economic problems that accompany falling export revenues due to tariffs and external pressures, property market crisis, debt crisis etc., the government relies on the private sector now more than ever to prop up a slumping economy. Enforcement is especially tricky because those companies might just implode altogether with entire supply chains and could easily spiral into mass unemployment and recessions if we’re not careful. Workers have to be properly compensated even when work hours are reduced, and that cuts into the corporations’ operating costs. Meanwhile, if the workers are not allowed the opportunity to maintain their wages, they will reduce consumption which is equally bad for the economy.
4. Low penalty for corporations while the costs of arbitration for employee grievances are high - some companies would rather pay the penalties because it is still cheaper than implementing work hours reform that could cut into their profits. Additionally, in China, there is no such thing as a trade union as you have in the West. That means an employee will have to file grievance with the civil court, and for most people, this is simply an unthinkable option unless you believe you have a very strong case to fight it out in the court.

For your second question, please see my response to another user on this comment thread.

Yes and no… Work in government/SOEs (体制内, or “in the system”) usually have standard work hours e.g. 40 hours per week as you say, but can be variable depending on your particular position and job responsibilities. Some departments demand more overtime etc. However, you do enjoy very good social welfare and benefits, if you are one of the 60M (estimated) people working in SOEs or as civil servants.

There are ~740M people in China’s labor force today. Except for the 270M people working in rural areas, the rest are considered urban employment.

In general, the luckiest people are the 10M employees working for foreign multinational corporations. These companies pay higher salaries, have lower requirement for overtime, give good benefits/pensions, annual leaves etc. Also considered a good career trajectory since it adds prestige to your resume. If you get into one of those foreign corporations, you’re considered to have “made it”. Still subject to layoffs as you would in any private corporation though, so there is still a risk of unemployment.

If you are less ambitious, and are fine with working boring jobs with limited career progression, then joining SOEs or working as civil servants would be an option, if you can “get into the system” of ~60M employees. You get good pay, and a lot more welfare and benefits. You’ll have a stable career.

However, it is typically seen to be limiting to your career progression, since you will essentially be working for the same people for the next 10-20 years, day in and day out, with less chances of promotion. You can’t just switch company easily as you would in the private sector. And if you work in one of those random out-of-nowhere towns, it can be quite depressing. “Once you’re in the system, it is hard to get out.” Private enterprises typically don’t value people coming from within the system because they want people who are willing to grind hard and used to long working hours.

The other 400M labor force (i.e. the vast majority of the people) works for private enterprises, and this is where all the hustling and grinding happen. The working conditions are widely variable. A lot of people are squeezed by exhausting work hours with low pay, but if you’re lucky enough to be in a sector that is highly lucrative (some of the tech firms, for example), you can earn quite a lot of money. Still, everyone is expected to grind for much longer hours than you’d find in Western countries.

Moon of Alabama is having some hot take today in light of the Denmark raising retirement age: Chinese Work Less For Longer Retirements

China’s new retirement age for males born in 1970/12 is 61.5, and females is 55.25. With life expectancy 81.5 🇩🇰 vs 79 🇨🇳 and China’s much longer working hours (2450 hrs vs 🇩🇰 1563), Chinese work 4600 hours for 1 year of retirement, while Danes need to work for 6500 hours.

This calculation assumed Chinese start working at 20 years old and Danes start at 22 years old to account for higher education level in Denmark. Average retirement age 58.4 is assumed in China, just an average of male/female retirement ages.

So 🇨🇳 worked for 38.4 * 2450=94000 hrs in exchange of 20.6 yrs; 🇩🇰 worked for 48 * 1563=75000 hrs, retire for 11.5 yrs.

Obviously, the austerity policy in Europe is bad and the raising of retirement age is inevitable with the impending economic difficulties under neoliberalism, but the comparison with China (of all countries!) is quite another level of galaxy brain.

Average annual work hours by country:

(Top entry is Chinese internet companies that implement 996 work hours)

If you are between 20-40 years old, would you rather:

1. Work an average of 48 hours per week (much higher if you work in some 996 companies) with 0.5-1 day weekend, 5 days of paid annual leave (10 if you have worked for 10 years, 15 if you have worked for 20 years), no free healthcare, no social safety nets, but you get to retire at 60 (going up to 63, for men) or 55 (going up to 58, for women). Also take into account that once retired, a large portion of your 五险一金 (five insurances and one fund) payout is going to be spent on your aging health expenses since there is no free healthcare.

or

2. Work an average of 35 hours per week with at least 2-day weekend, 25 days (5 weeks) of paid annual leave, free universal healthcare and supported by strong social safety nets, but now you have to work until you are 70.

Which one will you choose?