THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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Naah.. Find out who they are. Name and shame them to their famlies. Their kids, esp. if they have any, will be mortified.
Schwarzenegger pointed out how his father's generation were broken and ruined in the 50's - all those Austrian men that blindly capitulated to the Germans and then ate themselves alive in guilt and shame decades later.
Death is easy.
A lifetime of misery, guilt and abuse of one's kids and spouse leaves a longer, better generational impression.
Ask yourself why so many Millennials and Gen Z are supportive of this horseshit, and I'll tell you of cohorts of people that have not confronted the misery of the political views they think are cool. Not a lot of survivors of the NAZI atrocities left today. God knows, I knew many as a child of the 70's.
I want these modern brownshirts to emotionally suffer and be abusive drunks that their wives divorce and their kids hate.
Yeah, they were broken and ruined because the combined militaries of primarily the Soviet Union, United States and United Kingdom murdered millions of Nazis.
They lost.
Because they died.
Because we killed them.
The ones who survived were of course broken, because their former death cult had been (with some glaring, notable exceptions) dismantled with extreme prejudice and violence, and a lot of collateral damage, making the idea of German national/ethnic supremacy into a two time loser within a single life time.
They were beaten into submission and brokenness.
Forgetting that, just assuming the same result happens without that, is about as stupid as US Boomers not realizing that the reason they grew up in a golden age was because WW2 had destroyed so much of the industrial capacity of the developed world that it just left the US as the de facto manufacturing hub of the capitalist world.
You also fundamentally miscalculate that condemning them to living miserable, emasculated, forlorn lives should be enough as punishment.
No!
Those are precisely the conditions that give rise to fascism, within a decaying capitalist system.
Fascism is what happens when you have too many of such people, and you don't provide them with an actually improving society.
Your "solution" is to just reset the timer, untill enough of those pissed off failed AmeriNazis decide to try again.
Fascism only understands force.
You have to beat them to death, or at the very least, into terrified, maimed, castrated irrelevance.
Yaah, dude.. from the Department of No Shit Sherlock, tell me something I don't know.
FYI, I'm a boomer and yeah, pretty much everyone in my generation understands this. Lots of "..the US is the only 'developed' country not to be bombed to rubble.." lessons. That tangentally played into why by the mid to late 70's American industry was still rolling in clapped out, tired inefficient factories and industry jumped at the chance, starting in the mid-80,'s to offshore, instead of rebuilding new. (the rest is history)
Gen X knows this as well. God knows, it was drilled into our heads all through the 60's and 70's. We fucking got it, so let's not hear about the things we actually wintessed and lived through from someone that only knows of it from online media and books. Deal?
There's no resetting the timer here.. This is a New Generation of AmeriKKKans, raised in an already emasculated, wussified culture that gave men the heave-ho in the decades before most of them were born.
I get it, you're angry and rightly pissed off but that rage won't do fuck all if it's not aimed squarely where it needs to be, at the industries and politiicans complicit in enabling this shit.
As it stands now, aparently the Minneapolis shooter was a local neighborhood resident to where the shooting happened, who's already skipped town with his immigrant Phillipina wife. (Even JD Vance has got an immigrant, brown-skinned Indian wife, FFS)
This isn't NAZI Germany it IS inherently an immigrant country, so there's going to be a ton of people with spouses that aren't the same race/religion/skin tone as they are and this is where the soul searching and arguments with their partners will come in.
Once The shitshow in Washington folds and Donny croaks or gets so blatantly off the rails with his dementia, I expect a ton of heads will roll when the political winds change direction. A few more dead white soccer moms and maybe a little kid in the backseat of a car gets hit and and it'll really set DC on fire.
I'm ALL for watching the misery of persnal hells unfold over years.
Revenge is best served cold.
Hey I just picked a random example, glad you're aware of it, almost every Boomer I've ever met, and half the Gen Xers... don't know that.
I know this is lemmy here, and we're vastly tilted to the left compared to meat space and even most niche online spaces...
But uh, no, I'm not going to apologize for the persistent and consistent gaslighting and abuse I have recieved my entire life for pointing out what I just pointed out.
And also, you're wrong about my rage.
In times that call for decisive action?
Anger is gift.
And yes, of course, the politicians who actually directly command or enable this bare the lionsshare of culpability.
But uh... lets not do anything rash is how we fucking got here, to this moment.
I'm not gonna default to giving any respect to anyone who hasn't personally earned it from me.
Your generation voted for this.
Sure maybe you personally didn't, but you're from a generation of spoiled narcissist cowards, who had the capability to not get us here, to where we are now, to not gloat about your affordable, price appreciating homes the whole fucking time.
You have no idea how much rage I have at a Boomer who is anything other than apologizing to me for fucking up this country, and this entire fucking planet.
You say heads are gonna roll when this all blows over.
I presume you mean that metaphorically.
It needs to happen literally.
And for it to happen literally, well, it'll be people like me doing the cutting, or younger generations.
And if it only happens metaphorically, it will again be people my age amd younger doing the impossibly hard work of unfucking this fuckup.
You're all for watching this unfold on a TV or computer screen over your last decade, maybe two on this planet, because you have some kind stable home, housing situation of some kind, from which you imagine you can do that.
... the last time I knew that, some Boomers decided to kick me out because "that's just how it works." Been almost 20 years since then, think I've changed addresses at least 10 times, maybe actually up to 20, if you count the homeless spell I fairly recently barely survived.
The dead soccer moms you're waiting for more of?
Yeahp, those'd be dead soccer moms that are roughly my age.
... I've got a good number more decades left on this beautiful and calamitous rock than you, and its basically a miracle that I am even alive at all at this point, given the massive generational disadvantage I've had at securing a job, career, financial footing, the number of times I've had my life trajectory fucked up by correctly pointing out to some Boomer something they were and are objectively wrong about.
Doesn't matter that I'm doing so in a constructive way to try to help them with something I have subject matter expertise on, that they're often paying me to do.
No, their fragile egos are more important than my life, than the lives of all those younger, all those yo come in the climate apocalypse hell-future, that's been made exceedingly clear to me.
No, no fucking deal.
I don't trust you.
Prove you can actually sacrifice something costly and meaningful to you, in service of an ideal, not yourself or immediate family or kin, and then maybe I'll take you more seriously than Abe Simpson in a retirement home blathering on about onions.
As for some shit you didn't know, 'Sherlock':
... there are tens of millions of younger Americans that feel this way about Boomers, I'm just one of the few who had enough of that classic Boomer self-righteousness rub off on me that I can reciprocate it in kind.
Uhh... nope. We got here because too many people in every generation born since 1955 have been thrust into poverty stagnant wages and broken promises. This is pure rage at the classism couched with racism that we've been held down with. This is the despair of countless people in the poor corners of the country who've lost their jobs, their dignty and any chance of getting ahead.
This is the end stage of capitalism that's now all-but consumed the remains of the middle class, and is soon to be heading for those who think they're not gonna be served up next to the imminent trillionaire class.
You won't survive the slaughter. Few agitating for it really ever do. You think soccer moms in grocery getters being murdered in broad daylight by government agents is something new? They were college students roughly "my age" when National Guardsmen shot up Kent State. 4 dead. Even further back to the mid-60's the Watts riots in LA saw 34 dead.
For all that rage you have, you likely won't do shit, otherwise "shit" would have happend 6 decades ago. Boomers tried and failed and saw all their progressive heroes killed for the effort. JFK, MLK, Malcolm X.. That one will come around again.
Charlie Kirk a hero? (not to you I would assume) I dunno. You tell me. Listened to him once or twice and wasn't impressed. Seemed like he was regurgitating Rush Limbaugh's early work. Eh, not the right "side" anyhow.
Okay. Yeah.. right.
Uhhh, nope. Don't own a home. Rent an apartment. Saw my rent go up over 200 bucks this month. Charming. No lease. Tenants at will. Best we could find, so I suck it up even as I'm getting fewer and fewer jobs coming my way now that ageism is biting my ass. (Just wait until it hits you.. fuck..)
Haven't earned more than 32k in a single year. Ever. Spouse spent decades as a sous chef making less than 25k. No kids. No new car. Scant savings.
No TV (haven't had cable TV since 1999 when it got too expensive. Had to make a choice between internet or TV and TV lost. Wasn't a part of my childhood diet as I grew up homeless in California in the 70's. Mom and I lived in a VW bus. Know being worried about where you're gonna sleep next.. Had a fractured education. In 12 years I went to 12 schools on two coasts in 6 states.. so yeah. Know the homeless thing well. Sorry you had to experience it also.)
Graduated at 17 with honors and no opportunity or anyone to help me go to college. Was living with dad and the step-mom from hell the last year of school, and I burned out of there a few weeks after I graduated. I got a job in a shoe factory making $2.85 an hour. Sofa surfed with a friend for the first three months and hitch hiked for a year until I saved up 500 bucks for my first car. Moved often and in fact once I was married and we'd been in the same apartment for 5 years.. it was the longest I'd ever been in one place in my life.
That's a weird feeling, to be sure.
But here's the thing you're missing in this.
I don't make any stereotypical assumption about a single person younger than me. Can you say the same about those older?
I know that growing up as a turnkey welfare child, what I've experienced is what is coming down the pike for what used to be the middle class.
Watched this unfold over decades.
Trump is a fascist. Reagan was a fascist as well and he set in motion the economic nightmare of deregulation that allowed for the assole we've currently got infesting the White House.
Did my fair share of raging at the injustice and protested for women's rights (NARAL), picketed for union wages (Stint as a IATSE stagehand for 5 years.. AFL-CIO), joined political action for gay rights (ACT-Up in Boston - they were off their tits, fun AND scary!) and canvassed for environmental action (door to door with the League of Conservation Voters for years). But by all means, be my guest and throw down some stereotypes about what I have done that doesn't meet your approval..
Dude, I don't even assume that the majority of my own generation are in much different shape than me anymore, as other than the really rich older affluent folks (like "old money") I've worked for as a housepainter/decorator on and off since 1980.. the reality I've found is MOST of the people that have hired me since 2000 who have been in the nicer, more expensive homes are younger than me. Gen X and Millennials. (Right now, apparently Millennals have more investment wealth than boomers. So.. take of that what you will.)
I'm not gonna own a home.. I know that. Poor people don't get that luxury.. demographics about generations aside, that is a reality for the "lower" classes.
Welcome to my world.
Friend, my entire life has been a general strike against consumerism. (I don't even carry a credit card.. I do not have bad credit.. Fuck that shit. Credit is a 6-letter word for debt. I have NO credit.)
What I find is pissing people like yourself off the most is that you've probably been told the SAME lies. Work hard and that merit will pay off.. You'll be rewarded with the nice house and the secure job.. sure. Yeah.. you bet.
The reality is, it's Classism 101: As long as you try to stay in that consumerist, conforminst pot, pining for the materialist middle-class yupwardly mobile lifestyle.. billionaires are gonna boil you like the frog you are.
Leave the pepe shit for the MAGA chuds who're festering in the same rage you are.
That's what Trump leveraged to get elected on, and why we're here.
That doesn't sound very much like apologizing, it sounds like avoiding accountability, using the vocabulary of concepts that I am certainly more well educated in than you are.
Wow!
A Boomer being patronizing?!
I never would have guessed!
But oh! Oh!
Its stereotyping when I say most Boomers are spoiled narcissist cowards!
Well you got two outta three of those, congrats on most likely being white trash like myself.
I'm not missing anything here, all the shit you just Boomer-splained to me? I figured it out 20 years ago, and have been loudly saying as much since.
... I've already done more shit than you can apparently imagine I ever would, from squaring up against rioting cops in the street to managing the data side of the largest system of shelters in a major West Coast city, to being a part of so many different protests I can't even keep em straight.
"Welcome to my world."
Yeah, no shit, we're both white trash but you act like its personally yours, somehow.
You have no credit? No debt? Positive net worth?
Oh cool, so, unlike at least a quarter of the current population, heavily skewed toward younger folks of course... you lived a life a life where that was possible to do!
How nice that is for you.
Kindly fuck off and never speak to me again.
... and never, ever refer to me as dude or friend.
You wouldn't know how to ally with anything in a meaningful, productive, pleasant way.
You couldn't even momentarily sacrifice your pride to attempt to connect with me, someone you're ostensibly trying to ally with.
No, instead you figure you know better, you're the default authority figure, you just try to out self-righteous me.
Wrong move.
You don't fucking get it.
People like me demand just a basic level respect and people like you aren't capable of giving even an iota of it.
Because you can't allow or abide your ego to be ever challenged, even slightly, in any way.
Utterly untrustworthy, demonstrated the opposite qualities of a potentially reliable team mate, friend, ally.
Just as useless as I figured you would be.
Where in amything that I've written did I make a single assumption about you as a person, or part of a generation?
You want me to kiss your ass and I've rightly remarked that you are angry, which I DO respect.
I understand that entirely.
However.. I ain't puckering up and kissing your winking starfish.
Sorry. Won't do that to anyone. Ever..
What you may not be liking is that now that I can't be held to some "wealthy older indulged fuck" standard because I'm in a shitty boat like you are, you pivot this to some disrespect thing.. when it's not about your generation, but you and the personal disrespect you seem to have of anyone older - as if having a longer time in a shit situation doing the SAME things - fighting for positive change - is somehow your duty and yours alone and negates anyone else's?
Seriously?
Put away your martyr Mahatma..
Also, no "net worth" other than a decade old car, and to be honest, someone's "net worth.." is a capitalist value standard of a system YOU believe in, not me. It absolutely CAN be done, I'm seeing more and more people your age are deciding it's the best route forward to stay free of the hooks of indebtness. Just save what you can, live light on the earth, aim to rise above being consumed by rage and stay free of the pot. Instead of clambering for a general strike, aim to push a foundational change to the society.. but not until you get the split level ranch with the 2-car garage?
That's what I'm seeing, and when called out on it... well.. here we are.
Boiled frogs indeed.
Hey, anyhow it's a Sunday, be well, go out and have a wonderful day and take care.
Oh you sweet summer child...
Are we ignoring the fact that many of the J6-ers were turned in by their own families?
Not all, but enough that it matters.
Right? Even if their favorite tacos stand stopped serving them, they’d just send their battered wives.
They don’t have any shame. Have you not been paying attention?
How many Austrians had shame when they turned on their neighbors and got consumed by the Third Reich?
I'm talking about what happens when you age..
(you'll understand it in time)
Ask me how I know.
I think we are of an age. I've seen it more times than I can count: young man who does evil shit gets eaten alive by it later, nothing but a husk left at the end, too cowardly to eat a gun and too full of self-loathing and unconfessed crimes to do anything but wish he could. There's a reason retired cops commit suicide at a very high rate, and I don't think it has much to do with the boredom of unemployment.
You're not wrong. But no one who hasn't seen it for themselves through the arc of a lifetime, whose immediate experience is filled with visual proof of individuals who are seemingly incapable of shame, is likely to get it yet. Which is unfortunate because it's a hell of a deterrent if you know that's what happens after you do all your evil shit . . .
"Their kids, esp. if they have any, will be mortified."
I'll bet their kids are racist hateful shits and so is the wife.
Very likely. But if all of a sudden people from all over are constantly sending you hate, constantly talking about you... like you're going to find it hard to find friends, find employment, especially if they have any social media which will just get flooded. If they're grade shool level, it'll take almost no time for everyone in the school to know who they are.
I think you're making a big mistake in thinking you can embarrass fascists into changing their behaviour.
Their leader is a child rapist, con artist, psychopathic serial liar racist who robs children's charities. This is their LEADER. This thing represents them and their aspirations. They wear logo clothing, decals on vehicles and flags in windows.
Ya know, not to inject Godwin's Law, but in the 1940's there was a specific leader a bunch of folks looked up to. Adults and children alike. They wore clothing and decals. The said leader killed a whole bunch of people. That country learned and took the lesson very seriously.
I think that is changing, albeit slowly. I have an avid Alex Jones-listening co-worker and he's now very, very, unhappy with the whole Epstein stuff coming out, the tax code changes and permanent breaks for the bilionaires and the H2B visa worker prefereces Trump has (oh that last one pissed him off mightily, called Trump a bilionaire classist, which it honestly shocked me to hear coming from his lips...)
For years before the election, my Trump warnings were all "lies" from the left and now that more people around Trump are distacing themselves as Triump's instability and corruption take hold.. it's changing..
I used to constantly hear that I had TDS for not liking Trump..
Recently, I flipped that back on co-worker and told him he had Trump Delusion Syndrome, in that he actually believed Trump was looking out for working people and cared about stopping child abuse..(He was certain Trump was gonna release the Epstein Files like he promised that he'd do once he became President.. Gonna expose all those baby-eating, child-fucker Demon-rats after all.. right? Nope. Covered his own pedo ass is what Trump did.)
Got nothing back in return, but a half-hearted grumble so that told me right there that more than a few pennies dropped.
No more Trump banners or those tattered flag 1776 stickers on his truck. It's all gone. No more MAGA hat.
It's changing.. slowly with some. I dont attack, but offer even MORE ugly truths about things that weren't even on co-worker's radar.
Ultimately, it starts with individuals and I'm having SO much fun gently poking holes in that Trumpist idolatry in the MAGA folks in my orbit.
Lets hope its not too little too late.
And how many innocent American and Immigrant lives lost for embarrassment to set in? Does it ease your conscience to have innocent blood on your hands while you standby and wait for embarrassment to set in? Just so you don't have to get them dirty with a demon's blood?
Doesn't seem like a good trade to me. Between the two, I much rather have demon's blood on my hands, than further innocent blood due to inaction.
Fucking what? Sorry, did you just imply that we should just kill kids because they might be racist? That someone who's racist just automatically implies they're out there slaughtering people?
Man I swear I didn't see your last sentence there, I thought you were talking about adults.
And yes racists are out to demean, harm, and slaughter others they look down upon. Whether that's denials of services, intimidation or an ol' fashion truck dragging. Or I guess these days dressing up like a terrorist and going door to door. Why are you pretending otherwise?
Seems like Schwarzenegger's father's generation had shame.
These people, not so much. They will insist they were correct until they die.
Time will tell. People can change as they get older. It will be interesting to see what happens, that's for sure.
The Sicilian in me has other ideas of what to do to their families.
No man should be beholden to their father's crimes. Fuck that attitude.
That's not what they said. No where did it say you should arrest their kids. They said they should make their kids aware of their actions so they look down on their parents actions.
(But jail for the parents would also make their kids aware of their actions usually)
You're right, I misread it as others should be mistreating their children.
But the children and wives will suffer for his living. He will abuse them to assuage his own grief and guilt. Better that he dies and and is forgotten. Not what he did, but the man, forgotten.