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[–] 10 points 2 months ago (22 children)

https://www.britannica.com/topic/imperialism

imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas

Bruh can’t even read a dictionary, lmao.

Projection

Lmao, who do you even think I am?

The US is bad too. If you’re going to be anti-imperialist then you need to be against all imperialism and not just the one you were told to hate.

The vitriol toward defending China in this second response, at any cost, gives you away.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas

    That's still not the same as minor border disputes.

    The US is bad too. If you’re going to be anti-imperialist then you need to be against all imperialism and not just the one you were told to hate.

    Yes, decades long occupations, minor border clashes, both equally bad and equally requiring staunch opposition. You gonna go full "white lives matter" next? Or can we agree that focusing on the much, much bigger problem should be the priority?

    The vitriol toward defending China in this second response, at any cost, gives you away.

    "Gives me away" as what? If you're going to accuse me of something, say it to my face.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Using the Britannica definition of Imperialism is like using the IDF definition of antisemitism. It isn't actually very persuasive, bcs it gives you away as either a shill for the existing world order or a useful idiot for the same.

    Imperialism is the stage of capitalism where finance capital overtakes commodity production. That's a gross oversimplification, but it'll do for the level of debate in this thread.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/imperialism.pdf

    Neither China nor Russia is an Imperialist power because in neither state has capitalist control over markets led to the rise of finance capital overtaking commodity production as the main basis of the economy.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (13 children)

    I find it incredible funny that I have seen many other people (me included) criticizing their country, all of the countries really... but I have never seen Objection saying a negative word about China. Not even once. On any matter.

    Edit: I stand corrected. I though Objection to be either a hypocrite, a shill or a bot, or otherwise unable to criticize China. They changed my opinion by showing they are capable of criticising China on issues they find fault with.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago* (12 children)

    I generally don't go around shit-talking other countries that I don't live in and have never been to. The only real exceptions being ones that are receiving military aid from my own country, such as Israel, because that makes it relevant to me.

    For the record, I have and do criticize China on certain things, such as LGBT rights. But again, that's pretty irrelevant to any political questions that are actually relevant to me and my life. What am I going to do about problems in China? What levers of power can I or should I assert to address their problems? It kinda seems like I should probably be a little bit more concerned about all the horrible things my own country is doing. Don't talk shit about a splinter in their eye when there's a wooden board in your own or something.

    If there was a way for me to assert some lever of power against China, it would be through my own government. But that would only be a valid thing to do if my government wasn't doing worse things, which is why it's relevant to point out that the US is worse, in spite of the inevitable response of "whataboutism."

    If the discourse around here was upholding China as some utopia that we should all try to emulate in every regard, you would see me criticize it more. But because the discourse is more about how evil every single thing it does is, how every accusation should be believed completely uncritically, how we should support Western governments acting against it, etc, it's only natural that that's what you see me pushing back against the most.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (11 children)

    For the record, I have and do criticize China on certain things, such as LGBT rights

    Your profile motto:

    If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.

    Evidence or GTFO.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    Sure.

    China’s modern day homophobia does not come from a place of “The Buddha said this was bad,” rather, it comes from seeing homosexuality as a Western invention, and a symptom of “bourgeois decadence.” Sadly, such brainworms are common in many socialist countries. There is a stereotype many people have that gay people all live in cities and spend all our time partying at nightclubs, because that makes for better TV than the reality does.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago* (9 children)

    I think we have different definitions what criticism is, because all you do there is explain why, whitewash.

    Wait, no, unless you think this is the part when you criticize China

    Sadly, such brainworms are common in many socialist countries

    Because you don't. You explicitly don't criticize China in this sentence.

    Edit: I checked, definition of the words are clear. To criticize is to pass judgment, or find fault. To explain is to provide context or inform or clarify. You did the latter.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (8 children)

    How is acknowledging that Chinese homophobia exists, is a problem, and comes out of a socialist intellectual tradition not a criticism of China? Wtf are you talking about? Obviously, that falls under "finding fault."

    Yes, of course I'm going to contextualize and explain it, because the person in that thread asked me for an explanation.

    This is ridiculous goalpost moving. No criticism would ever be enough for you, short of going full on rainbow imperialism, chauvanism, or exaggerating/making shit up. You're being blatantly intellectually dishonest.

    Because you don’t. You explicitly don’t criticize China in this sentence.

    This is just straight up lying. Acknowledging that a problem in China is also a problem in other socialist countries does somehow make it not a problem when China does it. Fuck off with that BS.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago* (7 children)

    No, literally writing "I think China is wrong on LGBT treatment" would suffice. You did NOT write that. Thats not goalpost moving, dont try to gaslight me. From the start to finish I keep claiming I have never seen you critisize China. This still remains. You're sad on SOME communist country brainworms, but you did not list that specific country in that sentence, nor your personal opinion on homophobia in question.

    Heck, you can write it right now and I will be convinced and for as long that comment remains will never claim you're incapable of criticizing China.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (6 children)

    Yeah, if you completely ignore the fact that that sentence was in the context of talking about China, if you completely ignore the parts where I talk specifically about "China's modern day homophobia" then you might not be the bold-faced liar that you are. Talking about me gaslighting you while trying to pull this shit is incredibly rich.

    Liberals only ask for evidence of criticism to use it in bad faith, exhibit #1684938

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    I think China is wrong on LGBT treatment.

    Also, you are a fucking liar and asking in bad faith.

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  • [+] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I literally said that I have and do criticize China for things including LGBT rights. That itself is an acknowledgement of fault. The fact that you were so intent on this fucking gotcha, so confident that it could never possibly be true that I'm capable of criticizing the country, it's just ridiculous. What, did you genuinely think we're bots, as opposed to that being something y'all say to just write off any perspectives you disagree with? Don't drink your own Kool-Aid.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    This is the only comment of yours I have ever seen where you do critisise a country you're usually idealizing. What else am I supposed to think? Indoctrinated propagandist like on Fox news with different flavour.

    Also cool it with insults.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago*

    I don't idealize China. I do "defend" it, in the same way I do with every country. If someone makes a false or unfair criticism of any given country, then I'll push back against that on the basis of it being untrue. This is controversial because it means failing anti-communist purity tests.

    For decades, it has been the norm that if someone talks shit about a socialist country, nobody challenges it, for fear of being labelled a Red, a Pinko, more recently a "Tankie." Everyone remotely on the left in the West felt the need to constantly prove that they were "one of the good ones." After actual communists were sidelined, blacklisted, kicked out of organizations like the AFL-CIO, then the tests only got more stringent, until even supporting or being involved with unions at all became suspect. Finally, we reached a point where people are out there labeling people like Obama and Biden as communists.

    This state of affairs has resulted in the anticommunist myths and stereotypes to spiral out of control, and it has allowed the standards of what defines someone as a communist to shift to a ridiculous degree. This strategy of caving to anticommunist purity tests has been proven by history to be an abject failure, and is a major part of how we got to the place we're in today.

    In this context, there are a handful of people like myself willing to try a different strategy, of refuting falsehoods and trying to ground the discourse in reality, unconcerned about what labels may be assigned to us as a result. Because only a handful of people are willing to do this, in anglosphere discourse that is generally heavily anticommunist, it is only natural that someone such as myself will spend a lot more time refuting misinformation about socialist states than criticizing them on the points that are valid concerns.

    This does not mean that I consider China some kind of utopia or that I idolize it, or think it should be a model of emulation (although there are aspects that we could do well to borrow and learn from, like their trains). China has had a unique timeline of development and has it's own unique conditions to deal with. As I said previously, I don't believe there's anything I could do to affect Chinese policy regardless of what I think of it, other than through my own government, and that is not an option I'm willing to support.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    They brigaded you Dagnet. RIP.

    Purged like their authoritarian heroes wished for dissidents, downvotes to the back of the head. :,(

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