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[–] 81 points 2 months ago (32 children)

That also includes simping Putin and Xi.

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    [–] 73 points 2 months ago (51 children)

    When people say Russia, do they include their government? Because the Russian government can fuck off alongside any government. I consider myself far left and I refuse to simp for any government or its leaders. Now if we’re talking about the Russian and Chinese working class, I’ll always support them.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    When people say Russia, do they include their government?

    I would think that would be all they are including. regular russian civilians aren't out there making a lot of propaganda, it's all either state owned media or right-wing nationalist influencers. except for the occasional video trying to convince people that pork tongue is actually good.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Well of course we should support the international proletariat, even the ones heavily propagandized to the right such as in Russia and the US.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago

    Yeah, this can’t be a partisan thing. That’s just feeding into the same nonsense division governments manufacture. It has to cross those aisles and educate folks on the fact that all working class are in the same battle against the same collective ruling class around the world. We’re seeing authoritarian regimes forming around the world and they are working together. We have to do the same.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    So what's your opinion of the US working class?

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  • [–] 35 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (10 children)

    Support. We’re the most propagandized country in the world and need to be free of this tyrannical bullshit.

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    [–] 54 points 1 month ago (74 children)

    "We can talk about socialized healthcare and the evils of capitalism all day, but before we go any further I need you to pass this two-factor authentication by criticizing China and Russia."

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    but that's not even what this post is suggesting we do. It's just recognizing that China and Russia are also imperialist states, so we should be mindfull of where the information we consume comes from, since they're all shoving propaganda down our throats and pitting us against one another, for their own imperialist intentions.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (47 children)

    This comment is so real it hurts.

    I just had someone trying to convince me that Russia can't be imperialist because they oppose the US, an imperialist nation.

    ... that's not the definition of "imperialist," my dear tankie.

    Not sure if linking it so others can laugh/cry is "brigading" worthy of getting me banned off of various Lemmy communities/instances or not.

    Fuck it, here's the thread:

    https://lemmy.world/comment/25044062

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    [+] 44 points 2 months ago (19 children)
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    [–] 40 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (29 children)

    Why not loathe the existence of every nation state on earth? The worst religion is nationalism, and there is stiff competition.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (15 children)

    Spending time on Chinese social media has shown me platforms that read exactly like the garbage from the right wing talking heads here on Twitter. Extreme nationalist sentiment is very, very, common. I have seen soooo many memes expressing desire to just wipe out the Philippines, and just repopulate it with mainland Chinese. Memes about their eventual control over Africa, which uses surprisingly western racist stereotypes to portray Africans. So much discussion that mirrors MAGA like behavior, in many ways, but just discussing the greatness of China, instead. So many who, at least claim, to wholeheartedly believe revisionist, extremely idealized, versions of China's past, often including things that just are not physically possible. There is a lot of open talk about what China is going to do to so many of it's neighbors when it over takes the US, and NATO recedes from the region. I stopped going on their, because it was just becoming more, and more, X-China. Then my translator stopped using social media there, expect for work, as well, and now I just can't.

    Friends of mine who have spent the past 20+ years living in China are reporting seeing more, and more, of it offline too, when politics was not something Chinese would publicly really talk about, especially to foreigners. However, especially in the past 10 years, they said their open expression of xenophobia, hardline nationalist sentiments, desire to take, and punish other countries, has become almost common in certain social spaces there, and it is worrying them. These people moved to China after studying Chinese language, culture, and history, for many years, including attending Chinese universities. They loved it there. Now they are talking about how it is sounding more, and more, like the rhetoric you get from flag wavers in the US.

    So I do not trust China to maintain it's non-expansionism once NATO not longer controls so many of the waters around them. Nationalism is popular their, and the idea of finally taking revenge for the century of humiliation only grows.

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    [–] 21 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Absolutely. Of course the world isn't black and white, it's not divided into good guys and bad guys, and there's degrees to things. If micronesia decides to become highly imperialist, all of a sudden, I'm not going to care as much. If, all of a sudden, China starts invading a bunch of its neighbors, then that's a huge deal to me!

    If one country is responsible for 12 million deaths abroad in its imperial dealings in the past decades, and it has invaded and bombed more countries than I care to list here (I'm not sure if lemmy has a character limit, and spelling all this out is less effort and fewer characters than the actual list of countries), then I'm going to care about that country a whole bunch more than I'm going to care about a country that's invaded two countries and whose death count abroad doesn't even hit 7 digits.

    Anyway my point is pick your battles, and focussing on China over America is really missing the mark. If you go by the actual numbers on imperialism, you are focussing on a country that is literal orders of magnitudes less bad. Complete waste of time.

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    [–] 15 points 2 months ago* (66 children)

    Any independent thinker should indeed seek to critically understand multiple perspectives, yes. Although even just being able to formulate perspectives of other countries, or being willing to challenge blatant misinformation will get you accused of being an imperialist by left-posturing Western chauvanists.

    You can make the argument for Russia but I really don't understand how China, a country that has been at peace for over 40 years and which is developing an alternative economic sphere such that countries are not forced to accept whatever conditions the West imposes, could possibly be considered "imperialist." I'm guessing people will just be like, "Well what if they invaded Taiwan? The things happening purely in my imagination prove China bad."

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  • [–] 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (58 children)

    Had me in the first half, ngl.

    https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/territorial-disputes-south-china-sea

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-expressed-concern-over-chinese-structure-disputed-area-sea-2025-04-24/

    Ask literally any average Southeast Asian citizen about China’s influence on their country, and you’ll get a sense of Chinese imperialist ambitions.

    I’m brushing over the long history of Han ethnic expansionism and the literal war with communist Vietnam over their supposed vassal-state of Cambodia.

    Edit: Read up on the Chinese Ethnic Unity Law: https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/ethnic-unity-and-progress-law/

    Whom will likely benefit the most: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

    More complicated than what most people think considering the history of Taiwan. Imagine if fascist in your country seized a region via ethnic cleansing and then created a break away state. Would your country be happy to recognize it as an independent nation? The only thing that complicates this is they eventually established a somewhat democratic government, after +40 years of violent authoritarianism.

    Ask literally any average Southeast Asian citizen about China’s influence on their country, and you’ll get a sense of Chinese imperialist ambitions.

    Eh..... Comparatively I think you would hear worse if you asked them about western ambitions.

    China is a superpower, you don't get to that status without flexing that power. The reality is that every superpower in history regardless of what social economic system they utilize has to compete with an established hegemony to upset the status quo. You can label that as imperialism if you want However that opens the debate on how we quantify imperialism, and the only real way to do that is by comparison.

    Compared to the leading superpower I'd hardly say their activity in their own backyard really can't be compared to what the US is currently doing to control a waterway right now.

    I’m brushing over the long history of Han ethnic expansionism

    I think Han chauvinism has long been an issue within China, even Mao spoke about it during his time in power. Do I think it's as dire as it's depicted in western media? No, but I do hope that the CCP takes more steps to integrate ethnic minorities into positions in higher government like the politburo. That being said, is the treatment of ethnic minorities on the same level or worse than in western nations.....? Not really, which leads me to believe that ethnic chauvinism isn't really a problem specific to any government or economic system.

    war with communist Vietnam over their supposed vassal-state of Cambodia.

    Which the CCP openly admits was a misguided mistake, and apparently unlike other superpowers was something they actually learned from.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Read up on the Chinese Ethnic Unity Law

    Some exerpts:

    Article 4 In advancing the building of the community for the Chinese nation, economic, political, cultural, social and ecological-civilization development shall be coordinated; common prosperity and development for all ethnic groups shall be fully realized; the people of all ethnic groups shall be ensured the ability to jointly act as masters of the country; a shared spiritual home for the Chinese nation shall be built; all-round mutual embeddedness and extensive interaction, exchange and integration among all ethnic groups shall be promoted; an ecological home in which humanity and nature coexist in harmony shall be jointly protected; and the Chinese nation shall be developed into a community with a stronger sense of identity and greater cohesion.

    Article 5 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China are equal before the law. All ethnic groups in the People’s Republic of China are equal. Discrimination against or oppression of any ethnic group is prohibited.

    Article 6 A sense of community for the Chinese nation is the foundation of ethnic unity. The state shall increase commonality while respecting and accommodating differences, promote mutual support and harmonious coexistence among all ethnic groups, and safeguard the great unity of the Chinese nation. Acts that undermine ethnic unity or create ethnic separatism are prohibited.

    Article 8 The state shall uphold and improve the system of regional ethnic autonomy and safeguard national unity and ethnic unity.

    Article 9 The state shall govern ethnic affairs in accordance with law, protect the lawful rights and interests of the people of all ethnic groups in accordance with law, strengthen publicity and education concerning the Constitution and laws, enhance the awareness of the state, citizenship and the rule of law among the people of all ethnic groups, safeguard the unity, dignity and authority of the socialist rule of law, and modernize the system and capacity for governance of ethnic affairs within the framework of the rule of law.

    Article 15 The state shall comprehensively promote and popularize the standard spoken and written Chinese language. No organization or individual may obstruct citizens from learning or using the standard spoken and written Chinese language. Schools and other educational institutions shall use the standard spoken and written Chinese language as the basic language of education and instruction. The state shall promote the learning of Putonghua by preschool children and the basic mastery of the standard spoken and written Chinese language by young people who complete compulsory education. State organs shall use the standard spoken and written Chinese language for official purposes. Where documents are required by relevant laws to be issued in the spoken and written language of an ethnic minority, versions in both the standard spoken and written Chinese language and the minority language shall be provided. Where state organs, social organizations, enterprises, public institutions or other social organizations need to use both the standard spoken and written Chinese language and the spoken and written language of an ethnic minority in a public setting, prominence shall be given to the standard spoken and written Chinese language in terms of placement, order and other respects. The state shall respect and protect the learning and use of the spoken and written languages of ethnic minorities, promote their standardization, normalization and digital development, and support the preservation, collation, study and use of ancient books and records in minority languages.

    Article 16 Schools and other educational institutions of all types and at all levels shall carry the requirements for fostering a strong sense of community for the Chinese nation through the entire education process and incorporate them into an education system combining classroom instruction, social practice, themed education and online education. Schools and other educational institutions of all types and at all levels shall use state-compiled textbooks in accordance with relevant state provisions. Education administrative departments shall implement the requirements for fostering a strong sense of community for the Chinese nation in the preparation and review of teaching materials. The departments of the State Council responsible for education administration, ethnic affairs and related work shall organize the preparation of series of textbooks or readers concerning the community for the Chinese nation.

    Article 29 The state shall enhance mutual learning and integration among the cultures of all ethnic groups and encourage all ethnic groups to appreciate one another’s fine traditional cultures and learn one another’s spoken and written languages. People’s governments at all levels shall support cultural workers and relevant entities in creating and presenting literary and artistic works that are grounded in Chinese culture and reflect interaction, exchange and integration among all ethnic groups. People’s governments at all levels shall support libraries, museums, cultural centers and stations, memorial halls, art museums, science and technology museums, workers’ cultural palaces, children’s and youth palaces and other public cultural-service entities in conducting exhibitions and exchange activities concerning the history of the Chinese nation, national prosperity and development, and related subjects. People’s governments at all levels shall draw on the Chinese nation’s rich cultural, sporting and other resources to encourage and support exchange activities, including traditional festivals of the Chinese nation, folk culture events and sporting competitions, that are welcomed and jointly participated in by the people of all ethnic groups.

    So scary for our government with mandated representation of minorities to wish to encourage cultural exchange while instituting a common tongue to allow for our social and physical mobility while continuing to encourage the teaching of minority languages and writing systems. 😱

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    You can make the argument for Russia but I really don’t understand how China, a country that has been at peace for over 40 years and which is developing an alternative economic sphere such that countries are not forced to accept whatever conditions the West imposes, could possibly be considered “imperialist.”

    Any conflict between the US and China in the Pacific Rim is described as "US Imperialism" from the Chinese perspective and "Chinese Imperialism" from the US perspective.

    Any claim China makes along its border regions is Imperialism. Any naval actions made by the Chinese military is Imperialism. Any police action inside the recognized territory of China is imperialism. The entire 1.4B person population is routinely described as a Han monoculture.

    The national economic plan is at once a failed project, doomed to collapse within the year, and a sinister plot to steal global market share for the most villainous purposes imaginable. China is, at once, the world's biggest polluter and the perpetuator of a string of environmentalist "hoaxes". It's producing commodities, like consumer electronics and cars and steel girders and plastic widgets, too cheaply and quickly. But it's also dogged by inefficient bureaucracy and COVID restrictions and an inherent cultural disinterest in entrepreneurship, so the country is constantly lacking essentials.

    So they need to go out and steal other people's stuff, whether its Taiwanese semiconductors or Middle Eastern fossil fuels or East African mineral wealth. And the government accomplishes this by tricking idiot liberals into doing business with them, while secretly infiltrating their societies with the most black-handed saboteurs and spies and assassins.

    China is ontologically evil. Its politics is so authoritarian that the people don't even realize they are being oppressed. But also the people DO realize they are oppressed and yearn for freedom. And if you don't understand all of this to be true, you're either an idiot or a LLM programmed to ignore the obvious and trick other people just like an Evil Chinese would.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    The ways chauvanism can manifest and reassert itself, even when people rational recognize it as a bad thing in the abstract, are so crazy. The internalized indoctrination works like some kind of demon constantly whispering in people's heads, trying to get them to come back around to "America #1!"

    Criticism will either be overly specific, "This is just because of Trump, I miss when we had respectable Republicans like Bush," or it will be overly general, "Yes, the US is bad, but only in the sense that all governments are bad." Anything to avoid the conclusion that the US just fucking sucks.

    If the American government fails it must either be an exception, or an inherent flaw in all governments, because we're the smartest, best, most moral and freedom-loving people in the world. Impossible that foreigners could succeed where we failed, if we failed, it could only be because the task is impossible. That's how the chauvanists think, and so the conclusion is already determined before a single actual fact is considered.

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