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Over 180 projects have decided not to use AI moving forward (noailist.org)
submitted 1 month ago* by to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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Projects include video games, non-profit orgs and tools, and many software projects.

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[+] -82 points 1 month ago (39 children)

Not using AI in dev is like not using a screwdriver with screws. It should be seen like a tool

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  • [–] 56 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Developers got along better than fine without AI slop ever since Tennis for Two was first created in 1958.

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  • [+] -37 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Good point, but that also doesn't disprove ops point. They got along fine, but after the invention of the screw driver you'd be a moron to use your fingers to tighten up screws.

    Llms are going to keep getting better and it will eventually be seen as very odd to code without llms support imo. I bet in 10 or so years it will be almost unheard of niche to not use llms for coding.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Nope, LLM improvements have already hit the top of the logistics curve and are rapidly burning more fossil fuels and boiling off more water to get diminishing returns. The experiment failed, they are a tragic waste of resources that have netted no widespread benefit and now the imminent collapse of the incestuous money circle at the top is going to take the global economy down with it.

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  • [+] -25 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I would be fine with it all failing and the economy falling and us killing all the rich, could be a good outcome. I just don't think that's correct though, llms are getting better. Maybe not the basic underlying math but people are smart and have continued to find ways to make these systems preform better and better with every new model.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago

    people are smart and have continued to find ways to make these systems preform better and better with every new model.

    Yeah except every time someone gives hands me a one pager or flyer or other doc they "made" in copilot and have edits make, I have to spend twice as long redesigning the entire thing and typing all the text by hand in actual design software and then making the changes they want. And before you say "prompt engineer it" the reason they keep coming to me for fixes is because prompt "engineering" doesn't fucking work and theyve already lost a few hours trying to make that one change without fucking up the rest of it. I've gotten to the point where is someone wants something designed, I tell them to skip copilot and send me the raw write-ups and I'll make the designs.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It IS a tool (derogatory).

    A screwdriver doesn't destroy the environment, waste electricity, pollute water, ruin neighbourhoods with data centres, put the price of electricity, water and RAM through the roof, or make a$$hole billionaires rich.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    Compare it to cars. We'd be better off if not everyone had like 2 of them and our streets werent polluted and clogged. They are usefull if they rush you to the hospital though. Also even if we hate them we have to use then because work is far away etc.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    Evidently you don't see it like a tool, because if it is you won't chastise people for not using that tool. People doing fine without this tool before, i'm sure they will do fine without this tool going forward.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    My screwdriver doesn’t fit into a blatant agenda by billionaires to further centralise power, can be relied on to turn the screw the same way each time, doesn’t take the power of a small town, doesn’t pollute potable water when I use it, doesn’t cause a decay in my reasoning ability, doesn’t contribute to mass disinformation… should I continue?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I think it's admissible if an dev use AI as tool to write some subrutines in a big app, not admissible when a dev release an app only by writing a prompt. Most no - AI sites ban only apps and services MAINLY made by AI, eg Bandcamp has banned AI music, but not if an artist use some sound- or background effects made by AI.

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  • [+] -26 points 1 month ago (19 children)

    You're right and I think the general concensus over the next few years will keep changing to support this idea. And probably go even further into vibe coding (to a certain degree) being a real thing actually companies do.

    I don't think a lot of people understand that even when the bubble eventually pops llms arent going away, and they legitimately are improving rapidly month over month with no sign that will abate. As they get better and better the cost to run models good enough for your specific task also lowers. I remember in 2022/2023 all the people here saying llms weren't improving anymore and even getting worse, boy were they very very wrong.

    A lot of people are going to be unemployed over the next dacade from this technology, a lot more people than just developers.

    This of course is the fuckai sub so we will get downvoted for speaking the truth.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    zetta@mander.xyz: I think the general concensus over the next few years will keep changing to support this idea. And probably go even further into vibe coding

    Show us your vibe coded project. Oh, right, you won't do it because you don't want professionals to make fun of you. And you may also delete your comment like every other cog sucker.

    Have a nice day anyway.

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  • [+] -26 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    I have never vibe coded, or hand coded anything. I took a beginner Python class but that's the extent of my coding skills. My opinions are just from watching the last few years play out and working in a large company that heavily pushes AI tools (like all companies these days)

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    So you have no clue what the hell you're talking about then. Cool thanks for confirming we are all correct in ignoring what you're saying.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I have never ... hand coded anything. I took a beginner Python class

    Is this a fucking joke?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    In case you missed the last memo, vibe coding is now more expensive than hiring a developer team, and the companies that hurried with layoffs are footing the bill.

    That is to say, it was always the least cost efficient option, the AI peddlers just pulled people in with low prices until they seem irreplaceable.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Yes, but like I said in another comment models do keep getting better and better, and good models are getting cheaper and cheaper. As time goes on the price will continue to drop and capabilities will continue to grow. Frontier models will always be expensive, but a budget model that can do the same thing will come out 3 months after.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    It'll get cheaper bro, we just need more data, please bro, then we can use it to solve climate change, we just need more electricity, please bro, think of the capabilities bro...

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    If there is a future for LLMs, it will come after the bubble bursts and the small, specialized, locally hosted models take over, yes. I don't expect them to be able to get good enough at coding to replace humans any time soon, though. You need logical reasoning and problem solving skills to produce code that's of any value, and we aren't getting there by text prediction.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    A lot of people are going to be unemployed over the next dacade from this technology, a lot more people than just developers.

    So why help by giving training data and give a unnerving lever of control of open source projects to a handful of companies?

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    Use open weight Chinese models that don't collect your data.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    How can a project realistically tell if a contributor used an open-weight model and self hosted it without it being a de facto ban on AI for anyone not heavily involved in the project?

    Open-weight models are still giving up control. For one, all LLM outputs are generally recognized to not be copy writable which undermines copy-left license. Additionally, unlike open source software it's a lot harder to look at what represented in these models. A model can easily be designed to make specific plausible mistake as intentional backdoors, act worse on tasks relevant to an industry a country / maker cares about (like Fable has been designed), etc.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 month ago

    Very good points, the last part is especially interesting and probably something that will play out more over the years. Models with built in failsafes to sabotage work based on certain criteria, I imagine the usa/China have already started working on weaponizing this type of behavior.

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