I see the inverse of this, with native speakers of languages that use ABC (alphabet) to learn a language that’s logographic such as Japanese & Mandarin (since both have 漢字) as a single character is a word (difficult concept for them to grasp at first). However, even if let’s say a Mandarin speaker with zero exposure to English leans ABC for the first time, would the grammar be hard even if they’ve managed to master the alphabet?

There are sounds that don’t exist in both JP & ZH like words that start or end with “TH” (i.e. Thorough, Moth) as they don’t have that in their phonology. Don’t even mention the misleading pronunciations of certain words in ENG based on spelling that stump them like “Colonel” (大佐・上校) since most speakers of ENG say that as “Kernel”. Even if “alphabet” based languages are easy, the grammar can be hard for a non-native to learn.

As in, what would it be like for a Japanese & Mandarin speaker learning a Euro language (all alphabetical based) from 漢字 > ABC or Cyrillic as it’s alien to their own plus huge differences in vocab with zero similarity (like this: “Salida” from ES is equivalent to 出口 in JP & ZH) including common things most Euro languages have: gender cases (no such thing on JP & ZH), definite and indefinite articles for example to list a few.

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[–] 6 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I've met plenty of Japanese who speak fantastic English. Everyone had to study it from Jr. High here and, starting a couple of years ago, starting in elementary school. Pronunciation is very hit or miss since many of the teachers in Japan can't even hear the difference between l/r and the like sometimes and ALT (assistant language teachers, typically native speakers of English) are rarely allowed to drive things and push more from what I read.

Many Japanese who went to uni had to pass an English test section to do so from what I understand. You can look up sample questions on the web. As such, many can read English to a certain degree, but output and listening are often issues.

My wife hated English class and never paid much attention. She's working her way through a textbook now and she finds various aspects difficult (looking at you do as in do you like potatoes -- WTF is the do doing there? Why not like you potatoes?!) The alphabet portion, though, is not an issue in itself. Pronunciation requires a lot of work but I think that's because English orthography sucks. However, if you grow up where a whole range of sounds just map to one in your language (l/r problem again), you don't learn to differentiate between the various points in that range and can't hear that difference without a lot of work. Definitely so for sounds that don't exist at all. Many people going into Japanese have trouble differentiating germinate consonants and tsu vs su.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Why not like you potatoes?!

    Actually... that's a really good question. 🤔

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago

    "Like you potatoes?" is how English used to work, before "do" started being used sometime in Middle English. It's still preserved in things like the nursery rhyme "Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?", etc.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    The answer is: English has a Germanic grammar, not a Latin grammar.

    This can be confusing since we have so much Latin syntax layered on top of that.

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