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[–] 125 points 23 hours ago (55 children)

Is a video of a baby roasting in an oven even illegal? In general, are videos of violent crime illegal?

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  • [–] 9 points 14 hours ago (4 children)

    It is perfectly legal for Meta to remove content they find objectionable. WHICH content they find objectionable is what is concerning. Tits? Right out. Baby killing? Stay.

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  • [–] 111 points 22 hours ago (15 children)

    This. People reaaaaally don't like that point, but video/fictional stuff should not be held to the same standard as actual, living people. Otherwise, we can kiss goodbye to 90% of the entertainment business. Movies, books, video games, pictures, all of those should be allowed to depict stuff, if only to criticize it.

    Unfortunately, too many people think that if they don't want to see something, no media of it should exist.

    It would be very different if actual people were used, or even just their likeness, because then it actually can cause harm and distress. But this? People wasting their time defending pixels are doing only one thing: not defending actual people.

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  • [–] 24 points 19 hours ago

    I don't think that was the point of the comment you replied to.

    The point is that even if it was a real video, it's not illegal. Just like a video of 9/11 is not a terrorist attack nor is it illegal, it's just a video of one.

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  • [–] 7 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

    video/fictional stuff should not be held to the same standard as actual, living people.

    Disagree.

    Loads of countries treat animations or computer generated images the same as photos.

    No one is "defending pixels". The actual reasons are that the abuse of children should not be normalised, that authorities should not have to identify a specific victim, and that no legitimate artistic interest is served.

    That said, the question of whether a child in an oven depicts child abuse according to the interpretation of the court is another question entirely, and I suspect that the answer is that it does not. Yes placing a child in an oven would be abusive, no an image of a child in an oven is not "child abuse material".

    Otherwise, we can kiss goodbye to 90% of the entertainment business.

    Preposterous.

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  • [–] 13 points 13 hours ago (1 child)

    I agree with the points you’re making, but I’d also like to put in my two cents as a victim of CSA and CSAM production. Not that it makes me an any sort of authority on it; I just wanted to share my opinion.

    I don’t think fictional material should be considered the same as real footage. In real material there is a victim whereas (unless a person’s likeness is being used) there is none in fictional material. The reason CSAM is so horrible is because of the fact there is a victim, not because the material itself is disturbing (which it is, don’t get me wrong). I think that making them equal crimes is a huge disservice to the victims and downplays the crime that was committed against them, both socially and legally. In my experience a lot of people already oppose CSAM more so due to the material being graphic rather than the actual assault and continued violence against the victim by possessing/sharing footage of it.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 hours ago

    The actual reasons are that the abuse of children should not be normalised

    I don't think we should normalise torture, non-child abuse, exploitation, war, deception, genocide, manipulation, etc. either, but I don't give a crap if someone make a video of it.

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  • [–] 4 points 18 hours ago (8 children)

    And where do you draw the line?

    For example, do you think CSAM should be legal as long as those in the material are fictional?

    If you think that is not okay, would it make a difference to you if those in the material were not "realistic" (but still underage)?

    I don't think people are suggesting it should be illegal because they personally don't want to see it, but rather because they believe that it is damaging to society as a whole.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago

    I don't draw a line. If something 100% made up upsets you, nobody us putting your nose in it.

    Your "they believe that it is damaging to society as a whole" comment is terrifying to me, because a lot of people in power believe that the mere existence of some people is "damaging to society as a whole".

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  • [–] 1 point 11 hours ago (2 children)

    For example, do you think CSAM should be legal as long as those in the material are fictional?

    Yes. As long as the image is not created through raping somebody, it's morally okay, since no real person was violated.

    And where do you draw the line?

    Anything which requires violating somebody to be produced.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 hours ago (1 child)

    The morality is actually a little greyer there. There is research showing that consuming cartoon or otherwise artificially drawn CSAM does in fact raise the likelihood of the person who consumes it actually committing an act of abuse against a child, instead of being an effective substitute to prevent such acts.

    Therefore, it may be a good idea to ban such images even though their production is harmless.

    It's a difficult area of research, which is why it's a shame that we need more data on the issue to inform our laws on banning or not banning artificially produced CSAM.

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  • [–] 13 points 17 hours ago (1 child)

    Why are you deflecting to illegality? Meta removes tons of posts that are completely legal when they don't fit into Meta's political agenda

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  • [–] 39 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

    I'm so mad that ai generated objectionable material is considered fine because it isnt illegal but someone draws a werewolf with its dick out and it gets removed for "promoting beastiality"

    Source: involved in a lot of NSFW furry artist communities and constantly see peoples work being removed, flagged, or accounts lost for less.

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  • [–] 27 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    Ah but you see, when something is hot it makes closeted conservatives uncomfortable.

    You see the problem? To a conservative, nothing is more illegal than making them personally uncomfortable. And nobody is more inherently conservative than a billionaire media mogul.

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  • [–] 9 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

    Try to make a video of Zuckerberg roasting and see how fast it will be taken down. Double standards much?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 hours ago (1 child)

    I've never mastered Blender to a degree where I would be able to produce such a video.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 hours ago

    Despite my wording it doesn't mean that you specifically should to produce such a video, it was more of a thought experiment. My take is that if such video were produced and published on any of Meta's platforms it would remain very little time online, unlike the mentioned roasted baby video FTA.

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  • [–] 3 points 17 hours ago* (1 child)

    Legality (or religion etc etc) doesn't guide my morality, decency, or basic difference between right and wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 hours ago

    What does guide your morality? I personally like the idea of virtue ethics, but so far I haven't had time to properly familiarize myself with the concept. My understanding is that a virtue is a character trait that promotes human flourishing, and actions are good if they align virtues.

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  • [–] 9 points 22 hours ago

    No but it's probably against their ToS so I don't know why an AI generated gore video gets a pass.

    The only footage that's illegal from what I understand are sexual assault videos (including obviously csam) and snuff films (which are different because they are specifically made for distribution and generating revenue compared to "accidental" gore films)

    Depends where you are as well and this is mostly from memory.

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  • [–] 7 points 22 hours ago (13 children)

    It's in their rule that if it's too graphic then they might take it down. Emphasise on "might", it's very arbitrary, and they take down content for less.

    Inb4 "it's AI generated it's okay" that mean AI generated child porn is okay as well.

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  • [–] 7 points 22 hours ago (12 children)

    I would argue AI generated child porn is better than the alternative, perhaps if it was legal it would give people an option that causes no harm

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  • [–] 3 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

    And where would the genAI get its training data from?

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  • [–] 6 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

    Couldn't the ai make child porn by just combining the concepts of porn and children? Like there's no training data of basketball players who are pigeons because they're not pigeons, but the ais are still able to make basketball player pigeon hybrids that are cluttering tenor for some reason.

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  • [–] 3 points 21 hours ago

    I mean, it would help satiate the pervert(who just wanna look), but it will not make the actual rapist(who want the action, for the lack of better word) to stop, and CSAM is provided by the latter. I don't see why using genAI CSAM to satiate the former would solve much of the issue, the former will just watch adult porn if there's no child porn. On the other hand it's not like there's a lack of loli hentai.

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