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Centrists Won’t Tell You Where “Moderating” on Trans Rights Ends Up (newrepublic.com)
submitted 6 days ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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Overall, weak-willed centrists are slowly losing the intraparty debate.

Hold the line, and have faith. We are in this together, and we will get through this together.

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[–] 37 points 6 days ago (6 children)

There is no middle position on human rights. If you aren't for them, you are against them.

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  • [+] -19 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    Their are valid criticisms of "human rights", and legitimate reasons to reject the concept. The biggest reason is the concept of 'human rights' is just a re-tread of the 'rights of kings', that is a justification for State violence.

    When the cops crack your skull, they're protecting property rights. When the US invaded Iraq, Bush said we were protecting the freedom and human rights of Iraqi citizens. The invasion of Ukraine was justified as protecting the rights of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

    The idea that "human rights" protect human beings is pretty dubious.

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  • [–] 26 points 5 days ago*

    When the cops crack your skull, they’re protecting property rights.

    I'm sorry, when did property rights become human rights?

    When the US invaded Iraq, Bush said we were protecting the freedom and human rights of Iraqi citizens.

    1. No he didn't,
    2. There is literally no principle that people haven't used as casus belli for war. That doesn't mean those principles are wrong, or that the justification even makes sense. You may as well be declaring that since people still commit murder when it's illegal, there's no point to having laws.
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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago*

    That is a patently false and incorrect understanding. Human Rights is conceptually antithetical to the right of kings.

    https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

    Your best argument is fundamentally semantical and based on etymology that never happened.

    The invasion of Ukraine was justified as protecting the rights of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    Well that took a wild turn.

    Human rights supercede property rights, the rights of kings, and whatever other crazy nonsense you went on about after that.

    The rights of people to thrive in their natural environment shall not be put down upon by any other party so long as they do not inflict themselves upon the rights of others. Specifically, if a person's existence is a problem for you, that's a problem for you. Not them.

    Those with the power and authority to do violence will always impede upon the rights of others in pursuit of wealth. It's our right to do violence back.

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    • [–] 23 points 6 days ago* (6 children)

    And some Democrats are listening. California Governor (and possible presidential candidate) Gavin Newsom has had several stabs at “moderating” on trans rights.

    Daily reminder, ‘28 Democratic primary voters: if he does it to us, he’ll do it to you

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Yup, primary the centrists and make sure you vote in every Democratic primary. It's slowly changing like the author here points out, just got to keep it going to get rid of their influence.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    OMG if Americans could just line up a democratic challenger for every single electoral race... that would be FANTASTIC!

    Every time an incumbent democrat runs unchallenged it tells them they've won the democrat vote and directly incentivizes them to focus on winning republican voters.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    I think for a healthy Democracy and a healthy party, that should be the case, even for progressives when they win. If someone wants to challenge it should be welcomed and not shunned and worked against by the party.

    Unfortunately it's not something that this current centrist party leadership will entertain.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago (1 child)

    this current centrist party leadership

    You mean the incumbents? Yea of course they don't want primary challengers. It's always been the voter's responsibility to make that happen.

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    • [–] 6 points 5 days ago

    I'm sick and tired of people telling me that my rights as a trans woman are somehow in conflict with cis women's rights. I'm sick of being told that I need to accept being excluded from women's spaces. That they will support me if I agree that I'm not "really a woman"

    It's bullfuck, I'm getting told "Oh just admit you're a man and never attempt to label yourself a woman by any metric for any reason ever, and we'll let you wear a dress, in private of course, we don't want you giving kids ideas."

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    [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    Centralists are just embarrassed conservatives.

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    [–] 4 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    If people wanted to negotiate my rights for being a woman, it would be called sexist. But since I'm trans and nonbinary, most people don't give a shit.

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    • [–] 7 points 6 days ago (16 children)

    Real centrists will say that those medical procedures are nothing of government's concern and shouldn't be moderated at all.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    No such thing as a good "real centrist".

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    Then I think we need to make one because unfortunately there are a lot of people in this country who strongly identify with that aesthetic. I run into people constantly who are "I'm not into politics, but I know there's liars and idiots on both sides, and we really just need to settle down and have a conversation and agree on common sense stuff, like giving the military hundred of millions of dollars and subsidizing oil refineries and criminalizing homelessness." I think you could get these people to just as easily say "common sense stuff, like universal healthcare and safe injection sites and supporting the International Criminal Court," but they need a boring ass normie from the suburbs to tell them that's "normal."

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Centrism doesn't have tenants or foundational principles beyond being moderate. The notion that centrism can be a launching point for any position is just grifter propaganda. Being a centrist is a tacit admission that one doesn't hold positions based on their individual merits but by their relative acceptance. It's called the Golden Mean Fallacy but I prefer "4D Group Think".

    Real Centrists are people like Tim Pool, Bill Maher, Cenk Uyger, etc.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    You'd lump Tim Pool as a centrist? I certainly wouldn't.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

    You have to understand, I consider all centrists closeted right wingers(grifters) or libertarian-adjacent levels of ignorant. In Tim Pools case he's both. Bill Maher isn't ignorant he's just a right wing grifter.

    Centrism is fundamentally about pleasing as many people as possible. The grifters gospel.

    It doesn't have tenants or principles with which you can qualify someone based on their stances because the stances of a centrist are fundamentally populist in nature.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    Ah, no true Scottsman I see.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 days ago* (1 child)

    Well that's true, though, right?

    If you call yourself a centrist, but then support an interventionist policy that makes trans healthcare more difficult... you're probably just wrong about being a centrist.

    The same applies the other way. If you support governmental protections for trans healthcare (broadly), and enshrining basic protections across state lines, you're, again, not a centrist.

    The difference is that the latter group isn't ashamed, so they aren't hiding their opinions for the sake of being less controversial. We're proudly supporting our trans friends because good people don't take the middle ground when one side wants to e.g. prosecute their friends' doctors for providing healthcare across state lines.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 5 days ago

    If this was a discussion about what a centrist is, sure we could take that at face value and say a "real centrist is...".

    In terms of this discussion of the author's opinions on the Democrats that call themselves centrist and their actions, no.

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    • [+] -7 points 5 days ago* (1 child)

    Unpopular opinion: focusing so much just on trans rights while alienating everyone else leads to fascists who will actively kill them.

    It's no different than the dumbass Gaza bros who are deathly silent now that Gaza is a fucking crater due to their vote.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago*

    Wrong, a typical American voter only votes based on their pocketbook and their desire for immediate gratification. Most don’t care whether you champion social justice, just as long as they have their cheap consumer goods and distractions. Americans want leaders who support affordable first-world consumption habits. They only want to deal with first world problems. So it never hurts to champion social justice.

    People would elect a bald trans female president if their 401ks were maxed out from the sale of nuclear arms to Israel.

    Throwing vulnerable groups under the bus is a really stupid election strategy. You’re losing the social justice vote without gaining anything in return.

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    • [–] 0 points 6 days ago* (3 children)

    There isn't centrism in the USA. Every Democrat is better than every Republican. Even Fetterman, who has literal brain damage, only voted to confirm 11 of 22 Trump cabinet appointees. The most that a Republican opposed is 3, which was Mitch McConnell.

    Every Democrat is better than every Republican. Remember that.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago (1 child)

    When better is the difference between "the government oppresses me" vs "the government oppresses me and does a bunch of other terrible stuff too" you can't expect that difference to matter anymore for that voter.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 days ago

    The government pays for tens of millions of peoples' healthcare and kept 4.5 million children around the world from starvation, before. It did so by taxing the rich, who are currently so powerful that they built their own surveillance states and monopolies with which to oppress you on the same scale as a communist dictatorship did in the past.

    There have been 48 or less DNC senators for over 13 years and during that time we've backslid down the democracy index.

    The DNC is progressive.

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