transcriptScreenshot of a tweet by @feralhousepuppy: hey so you've been calling me "bro", "man", and "dude" a lot and it's really invalidating to my masculinity cause those are all gender neutral things you call trans women :/

Screenshot of a tweet by @feralhousepuppy: hey so you've been calling me "bro", "man", and "dude" a lot and it's really invalidating to my masculinity cause those are all gender neutral things you call trans women :/

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[–] 13 points 6 days ago (1 child)

Gender-neutral-"dude" is like peanuts

Usually fine, but some people are more sensitive to it, to the point where it could seriously hurt them. Best avoided around new people until you know it's safe for them.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago*

    Loosely related, but I never understood the "they want us to change our vocabulary" thing conservatives complain about.

    I used to use gender neutral "man" in phrases "my man" and "look at the man go." It did make one trans girl get mad at me like 3 years ago tho so I just started using new terms right after.

    It wasn't that hard or anything either. You can build new habits in weeks if you want to, turns out. Was just a simple "oh I will not say that from now."
    That was it.

    (P.s. Love this rule pun)

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  • if someone needs to refer to me in a gender neutral way they can always use "your majesty", "comrade", "accomplice", "shoddy imitation of a human", among many more :3

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  • [–] 79 points 1 week ago (49 children)

    I really wish there was a word that was as useful as "dude" but without the gender connotation.

    I tried swapping to "fam" and "cuz" but those felt appropriated, I tried "gamer" and "chat" but those felt irony-poisoned, "Sis" and "girl" feel performative. So "dude" it shall be until someone tells me it's bad, and then they get no objective article at all.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 week ago

    I mean the golden rule with how you speak about people is really just to listen to what people tell you about what makes them feel respected

    So feel free to use dude gender neutrally if thats how you speak, and if someone says they don't feel good in it, stop. If youre worried it might not feel great for someone you can always just say you're used to using it gender neutrally and ask 🤷🏻‍♂️

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  • [–] 28 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    I think the australians have this figured out with "mate"

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  • [–] 11 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    Nah, mate is as gendered as dude. Like sure some woman won’t mind, but it’s mostly men being called mate by other men.

    No straight man is going to be like “I had sex with my mate” when talking about say a fwb.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    Nah, mate is as gendered as dude. Like sure some woman won’t mind, but it’s mostly men being called mate by other men.

    Well, yes and no, depending on where you're from.

    Where I'm from, I'd say mate meaning "a person who is my friend" as opposed to mate meaning "greeting to a random person" are used a bit differently. I think it's normal for anyone of any gender to refer to someone else of any gender as one of their mates. I would say it's not uncommon (though less common, for sure) for women to greet other women. But men and women generally refer to someone of the opposite gender as love (and of course this is looked down upon in other parts of the country (other terms of endearment are available, but love is the most common, at least when I lived there)).

    I'd agree that no straight man would be likely say "I had sex with my mate", but I don't think they'd be much more likely to say "I had sex with my friend", either, unless they ended the sentence "... with benefits".

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  • [–] 20 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    "dude" always felt gender neutral to me (though do note English is my fourth language...).

    And if you look at the etymology of the word, gender neutrality makes some sense.

    It started out as slang in the late 1800s mocking "hyper-fashionable young urban men".

    Then the early 20th century it transformed to describe tourists from the East Coast on the Western side of the country (see "dude ranches").

    And then in the 60-70s it transformed thanks to surfer slang, back to being male oriented.

    I'd say if you're uncomfortable with the "dude" form of the term... use "dood" instead. Or even "d00d" if you're feeling l33t h4xx0r.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    So in your examples, it went from making fun of a type of men, to referring to the overwhelmingly-male owners of hobby ranches, to referring to male surfers.

    When exactly was it ever gender neutral?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 week ago

    No...

    You got the second part wrong. It wasn't the "overwhelmingly male owners of hobby ranches" that were called dudes, but, if you read my comment again, you'll notice I specifically said the UNGENDERED tourists hailing from the east coast - primarily city folk - visiting rural western areas, ranches.

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    [–] 60 points 1 week ago (11 children)

    I used to work with some proper manly-men; ex military, oil rig workers, lumber jacks etc. You get the picture.

    The amount of times people get called “babe” and “sweet cheeks” etc. was dizzying - as was the constant vague alluding to the wanting of doing horrifically outlandish sexual stuff to each other.

    Weird, but fun, vibe all around.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    Did you work in the gay steel mill from the Simpsons?

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

    Isn't the "alluding of wanting sexual stuff" just homophobia? Was anyone of them actually gay? Would they accept an openly gay person in their manly group? For me it sounds like "guys, look, I'm gay! how degrading and self-deprecating of me. can you imagine anyone here actually being gay? hilarious!". I heard the same things from military friends and they are the most right-wing people I know. I have hard time believing their "gay jokes" are just innocent teasing. But I don't know, maybe?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Yeah - I hear what you’re saying but it was probably closer to “gay chicken” rather than anything else.

    You’d bend down for the hundredth time that day to pick up something and you just hear a distant “mmmhmm” or an “oh yeah, baby”

    One guy, if I hadn’t worked with him for a while, used to hug me, sniff me aggressively and then, whilst maintaining eye contact, tell me that he’d missed my smell. And then kiss me on the forehead.

    One (openly) gay guy worked, tangentially, with us and came to a works do one year. He declared, in the first pub, that he was gonna turn one of us before the end of the night. I’m not sure if he succeeded… but he stayed the course of the night and seemed to enjoy himself.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 week ago (40 children)

    I subscribe to the good burger use of dude.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 week ago* (39 children)

    yeah no "dudette" is an abomination of linguistics and I refuse to entertain it, and anyone who does should be met with derision.

    We are all dudes on this blursed world. 🙏

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  • [–] 32 points 1 week ago (37 children)

    It's odd that the gender "neutral" terms are always the masculine ones

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  • [–] 18 points 1 week ago (33 children)

    It's deliberate, for all the same reasons across all of history.

    It's why I use terms that (I assume) are genuinely like "folks" and "peeps" and "comrade" etc.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (20 children)

    I’m sorry but I HATE folks. I’m down with virtually all other gender neutral terms, but I psychologically can’t uncouple ‘folks’ from pseudo-homespun charm put on by people who are sleazebags for various reasons. Anything but folks, I beg (general) you

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago

    I use folks all the time!

    ...but i'm also a server at waffle house, so I guess I am using southern culture and folksy charm to sell you waffles and coffee. It's a soulless existence, I know, but at least I have my cold, hard cash tips to keep me warm at night.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    This discussion always centers around whether or not these are gender neutral terms in general. It always leaves out the fact that there are people who only use these terms for men and trans women.

    The stoner who uses "dude" or "man" all the time, the leabian, I see them use it for cis women constantly, we have no problems. The bro bro who absolutely does not call cis women "dude" or "man", can fuck all they way off to the 7th jockstrap of hell.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    The one that gets me is 'bud' I had a roommate that would all ways say things like 'yeah bud. that's because ****' when explaining anything and I had to put a firm stop to it. It was so patronizing.

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    [–] 19 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I really wish inheritantly masculine words weren't always ending up the "gender neutral" defaults.

    I can't help but feel like ever since being out over the last 2 years, friends are calling me "man" or "dude" in a neutral sense way more often than they ever did before despite them being supportive and it just feels too me like petting a cat in the wrong direction. I know I need to be more vocal in it making me uncomfortable but I've always tried to avoid confrontation so it's hard

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    [–] 17 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    If you're me, you can say, "sup, y'all"

    For more context, this works when greeting one person or a group. If you need to specify that you're addressing the group, the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all".

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    [–] 17 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    In Spanish we just say "you". It's really terrible in Arabic where you have feminine and masculine "you".

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    [–] 14 points 1 week ago (11 children)

    If you call a trans woman any of these things you are morally and legally obligated to give her $20 each time.

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    [–] 13 points 1 week ago

    I have officially lost complete connection with what the kids are talking about these days

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