NoAiList.org Lists projects that have specifically chosen not to use AI. Do you have a project that is not using AI? Be sure to add your project to the list. As of writing, the project counter is at 340. We are 10 away from reaching 350!

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[–] [S] 5 points 2 days ago (6 children)

To answer your other question, projects are not allowing any AI, even small (tiny?) usage of AI like your example. This is due to the societal cost of using AI being too high- as listed on https://noailist.org/why-no-ai

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I would be shocked if all of the projects on your list genuinely adhere to requirements as stringent as "no contributor has ever googled an issue and accepted a working AI suggested solution". How would they even enforce that?

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  • [–] 4 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    I see this so often.

    That is not what is meant. No one is taking the "no true vegan would eat vegetables fertilized with animal byproducts" position here.

    1. Bad actors are not a reason not to enforce a community rule. If I start a forum for victims of sexual violence and state, as a community rule, that people who have ever committed sexual violence are not permitted, how do I enforce that? The answer is "to the best of my abilities."
    2. The bar for No-AI is not "this has literally never even been ingested by an LLM, nor has any of its components, nor has anything like any of its components." In the vast majority of cases what myself and others are looking for is that, to the maximum extent possible, you did not seek out LLM assistance on this project and barring that 100% of the content is your own creation and not the output of an LLM.

    While I can't speak to this project's values specifically I can say for me, it is enough to know that every word of prose or line of code followed the same path

    Your brain -> your hands -> that project

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  • [–] 1 point 54 minutes ago

    I think thats fairly reasonable. I have a personal project im working on- an sdl blend of DOS mode13h and the SNES retro engine. Ive used local models for specific issues- converting loaded images to closest palette matches, but for the most part its hand written. Im fairly happy with that middle ground. And im professionally frustrated by vibe coders that dont even check their output(not even code, they dont even check that the changed program works at all before submitting it).

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (2 children)

    I'm starting to suspect the way I asked my question wasn't clear and you (and BaroqueInMind) aren't answering the question I meant to ask. Were you thinking my question involved LLM-generated code? I intended for my hypothetical to involve only wholely-human-authored code written with knowledge originally gained from LLM output.

    (If you could read my first edit on my response to BaroqueInMind in this thread, I hope that'll clear up what I was trying to ask.)

    (Also, I hate calling anything gotten from an LLM "knowledge" because implies LLMs are reliable sources of accurate information. I could simply call it "information", but that makes it sound like I'm talking about copying output from the LLM into the contribution itself when I actually mean information ingested into the human's brain and considered in the process of authoring code themselves with their own human brain. Please excuse the lack of better ways to language it.)

    If you are saying that in order to qualify for inclusion on noailist.org a project must forbid the use of knowledge gained from generative AIs, I of course want to know that as well, but yeah. I just want to make sure we're not talking past each other.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 19 hours ago (1 child)

    Your project was added because it matched the criteria for addition, that projects publicly state it won't be using any AI, in your case you mention "strictly forbidden".

    To answer some of your other question, noailist.org has to rely on some trust with project owners that they are "to the best of their ability" enforcing their own AI policy. There is a lot of trust involved, from the project owner and from a project's contributors.

    Some projects have been removed for not enforcing their AI policy, but they have been blatant and public about not following their own policy. Some projects the public have reviewed the submissions and found clues there were AI leveraged submissions, and the project was removed until it can follow its own public policy.

    In your example, Sam might use LLM to find an answer, and then contribute some of their own hand written code. In this case this means Sam is still using AI and ignoring the societal cost of AI being too high ( https://noailist.org/why-no-ai/ ) by continuing to use AI at some point in the process.

    If Sam admits to leveraging AI, you as the project owner may decide to bar Sam from further submissions unless they agree not to use AI anymore. That would be enforcing your AI policy to the best of your ability.

    It would be dishonest if submissions were made with the use of AI without the project owner knowing about it especially having a public No-AI policy visible.

    This may be a concern from project owners that contributors are submitting additions while leveraging AI but not being visible or honest about it. noailist.org would have to trust that project owners are attempting to find out if their contributors are leveraging AI or not... and being strict about enforcing their policy, and there are some tools and signs that help identify AI additions.

    There might not be much leeway if noailist.org or the public is reviewing a project and the project owner had no idea that contributors were leveraging AI, the project would probably need to post a public statement to its contributors, and do more to enforce its strict No-AI policy. The project would probably be removed from noailist.org until there is more done to enforce the policy strictly.

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