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For Starters (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by [M] to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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Alright, I just want to clarify that I've never modded a Lemmy community before. I just have the mantra of "if nobody's doing the right thing, do it yourself". I was also motivated by the decision from u/spez to let an unknown AI company use Reddit's imagery. If you know how to moderate well, please let me know. Also, feel free to discuss ways to attack AI development, and if you have evidence of AIBros being cruel and remorseless, make sure to save the evidence for people "on the fence". Remember, we don't know if AI is unstoppable. AI uses up loads of energy to be powered, and tons of circuitry. There may very well be an end to this cruelty, and it's up to us to begin that end.

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[–] -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

I don't think people should be allowed to, and I never said as much.

The bad things being done are being done -with- AI, not because of it. My stance is one of accepting that it's a thing that exists in the world and it will not go away. Any energy you put into erasing it is going to be wasted. It's here.

The humans gatekeeping the AI are the problem, not the AI.

The fact that most of humanity has given our inherent power to money, and that money (in the hands of the few) controls the world is another problem.

The absolute best thing we can do as individuals is embrace AI. The more you understand it, the more influence you will have over the path it takes, but it will not go away without some global extinction level event.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    The bad things being done are being done -with- AI, not because of it.

    Is there a difference between that? If this tech wasn't handed to the members of public without any checks people would not have a way to harass both small and established artists and force them into taking a defensive stand. With our because of it, the few companies who gave away what they stole cause this and some people are complicit in the act, even defending it. It's bad being done very willfully.

    When you claim "There is nothing you can do about bad things in the world" do you realize that the natural conclusion of that is closing of the advocacy groups? Yeah, let's accept bad as it is, not like people know how to change their behavior if they are thought the consequences of it. Not like slavery, corruption or labor extortion will go away by itself.

    Just say it as it is, you want this stuff to exists because either it benefits you or doesn't harms any of the groups or thing you are into so you want to give it a leeway.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    There's a big difference. You don't blame the hammer used to assault someone. There had to be a human to initiate the action.

    AI seems to be directly impacting your life in a way that it doesn't for me. But I agree with you 100% that the way they're training AI right now is immoral and amounts to intellectual theft.

    And I can't think of the terms right now, but I've heard of methods to essentially poison training data by running images through some software that leaves watermarks that are virtually imperceptible by humans. I think that's cool as fuck and I love to see it happening. Hit the fuckers in the training data. Which will then hit their bank accounts.

    Lets take something that is meaningful to me though; US Politics.

    Yeah, I'm angry right now, but if I let that anger interfere with how I see and interact with the political landscape, I'll be fighting ghosts and boogymen while the real monsters are free to do as they please.

    Same goes for AI, same goes for any just cause.

    Know your enemy, not the boogyman sent to distract you.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    The "tech isn't inherently evil" is a tired argument and doesn't applies. Current models have been developed with hoarded data that was taken without consent of it's creators to be used to compete directly against them, all knowingly (with proof) and anyone who defends the practice is complacent in the act, there is no way to recreate it without the mass amounts of data- just the creation of it involves and immoral act not to mention the handing of it to the public all willy-nilly. You started the discussion by basically claiming that tech has to exist now because it's out and is (somehow) untouchable. You are trying to take the easy road out because, just like you said, feel like it doesn't effects you in a personal way and thus trying to talk others who are trying to speak up into being content with what was done. I can't think of a position that lacks compassion this much. You don't sound angry either.

    We are poisoning the well, we are in the politics around the globe, we are trying to bring social change while some people are sitting back and saying "nothing we can do I guess" while the solution requires us to be visible. Don't be okay with the wrong. Your stance is also a part of the problem as it just accounts to "Deal with it." which amounts to nothing in this this discussion.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    You're completely missing my point.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    "It's already invented" is not a point.

    "Nothing can be done about it" is also not a point.

    "Tech is neutral" is also not a thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    I think you’ve made a number of extrapolations from the other commenter’s post, that I don’t see them having said.

    I understood their take to mean: abolition doesn’t work (as we’ve seen repeatedly in history). You can’t make something disappear just because you don’t want it to exist. That doesn’t mean “do nothing”, it means take a realistic approach that will actually make a difference.

    I want to be clear - I’m with you. There’s a lot of things that I wish never existed but in lieu of that - I am learning how to navigate a world with powerful technologies in the hands of bad and powerful people - and being an agent for change without killing myself in the process. The commenter was being empathetic, suggesting you may want to take an approach that won’t exhaust yourself. This person is an ally - and you are going to fail if you can’t recognize that.

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