I didn’t serve, but nearly every male in the high school class before mine, mine and the class after mine did. We were one of those bum fuck areas where you couldn’t get a job unless you traveled 3 hours a day.

I guess where I would differ is that while they achieved those short-term goals, I think it can be strongly argued that none of those goals adequately served the US' long term geopolitical interests

We don't differ. The empire the overstretched and cannot continue doing the same playbook indefinitely, and a failure as big as the Iran war is a huge a result of that, it's similar to WWII Germany, the US military is arrogant and thinks it's untouchable and can invade any nation at will, and the rest of the world are tired of it and starting to realize they might be next. Modern drone warfare renders American air superiority not as much of a threat, and yes the empire's expansion cannot be sustained. Celebration!

while the US did succeed, operationally, in achieving their strategic goals, Iraq also demonstrated some long-standing issues with the US military that have only worsened with time. Something that's not talked about enough in regard to both Iraq and Afghanistan is that there were multiple units that were activated for those invasions only to repeatedly fail their workups and ultimately end up sitting out the initial stages of those wars. That's shockingly bad. When you have whole divisions that are so incompetently trained that they are literally undeployable... Well, what are they even there for? The US military is huge, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that it's also extremely badly managed, and that these issues are not new. I know people who work alongside American soldiers, and the general consensus is that they are some of the least professional, most poorly trained in all of NATO. That's unbelievably bad for a military with that kind of budget and history.

I agree with that.

These recent issues didn't come out of nowhere.

I agree. For months before the war every expert worth listening to said this is how it's going to go, and now they're scrambling to sell opening the strait as a victory.

They counted on being able to use death and destruction to compensate for all the issues you highlighted. I hope it was clear I was not complementing the US on their destruction of Iraq, but as you said they achieved their primary objectives, it was a military success.

The vast majority of Americans now see the war as a failure. It cost trillions, was founded on abject lies, and brought nothing for the American people

It was a success for the empire, yes it was founded on lies, it helped the ruling class steal vast amounts of resources, it helped the war machine industry make bank and deepen it's grip on the world, it helped fracture the resistance to American imperialism. It helped the ruling class implement massive surveillance systems, strip citizens of basic rights in the name of national security, and more. The biggest objective win was removing Saddam and installing a US/Israel friendly puppet government that will give oil contracts away to western counties and turn a blind eye on imperialism and completely ignore the idea of reparations.

I'm noticing you neglect to consider the people's perspective

Okay.

You think the Iranian people care about US bases in the region?

Do I think the Iranian people care that the US no longer has air bases right across the border to launch bombers that bomb their schools? Yes, I do.

Removing US bases does not put food on their table.

It literally does. Pushing the American empire out of the region will translate to removing sanctions, which will literally put food on the average Iranian table.

You don't understand how important the bases were for US hegemony and imperial control, and now that most host countries realize they don't offer the protection they promised, America is being eliminated from their national defense strategy.

The military success of the war, from either side, has little bearing on public sentiment because neither people has anything to gain materially.

Okay... The discussion was about the government's goals in attacking Iran, not about the public stance. You're counter arguing an argument you pulled out of thin air.

You need to look at what they're actually saying, not what you think they're saying.

3abas is completely correct when they say that - in terms of their immediate, short term, strategic goals - the US got what they were after in Iraq.

Whether or not those goals were moral, or desirable, or beneficial, are not the questions that were being addressed.

If I say "That car is red" why would you reply with "No, it's a Ford"?

Well I can tell you that I didn't put any sanctions on anyone. Nor have i made any international trips (Caribbean honeymoon cruise notwithstanding) or deals in my life.

Why are they under sanctions? Take a look at the discussions those oligarchs and despots in the US were having and please again note that I voted as much against corporate interests and corruption as my ballots would allow. If I was out-voted, am I truly to blame?

And if all these are such big issues in your life, what have you done to fix them?

Blaming people like me for the ills of the government I have disagreed with since the time I truly learned how it functioned is genuinely unhelpful; you are berating the only people in this sad excuse for a country who genuinely want to improve things for everyone because we do see the potential the US had and utterly squandered in the name of profits for a few.

We were sold the lie harder than anyone else. We fought against the lies in what ways we could. I've faced down lines of riot police firing tear gas into crowds alongside my father. I have put myself on the line against this oppression. Now I generally keep to myself and protect my babies as best I am able, which is beginning to feel increasingly futile.

So please, again, explain to me why I'm the bad guy for what the people I very specifically have voted and physically stood against every time I can have done and how its entirely the fault of me and people like me.

Edit: missing words.