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[–] 100 points 6 days ago (29 children)

RPG has consumables (potions, scrolls, grenades...)

Don't spend on normal enemies, because there will be bosses

Don't spend on bosses, because there will be final boss

Final boss: dies in a minute without you spending any

Here we go again

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  • [–] 41 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Don't spend on bosses because I dont want to have wasted a consumable in case I die and have to retry the boss.

    I wish crafting an item made it a refillable instead of a consumable. I feel like the cracked pots in Elden Ring were going in the right direction as "refillable containers" at least

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  • [–] 20 points 6 days ago

    By the time you get to the bosses, the shitty potions don't heal enough anyway.

    I appreciate the RPG's that let you craft better potions from the shit ones, but I still never use them.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (2 children)

    The funny thing about this in Elden Ring (since you mentioned it), I never learned to use consumables besides the flasks. I’ve seen speedrunners make great use of some of the greases for example, but every time I use something I end up dying anyway. Really hurts because some of the consumables have limited crafting materials (St. Trina lily for sleep pots iirc?).

    I ended up beating the base game without them.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago (1 child)

    I call these things 'speedrunner tools' for exactly that reason. If you or I, as a normal player just playing the game, can beat the encounter without the tool but with some practice learning, then using it and wasting it feels bad, so we stop; and by the time we can beat the boss, we don't need it. We're also unlikely to revisit that boss.

    A speedrunner who has spent hours on a boss and knows the move set and when to punish, though. They can apply fire paper and rip the boss apart in seconds and be at the next boss before the buff wears off.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago

    That’s a very fair take. I played a few play throughs of Elden Ring however and just never learned anyway, even though the items would’ve helped a lot on further NG+. I guess I also learned how to use fowl foots but that’s once a boss has died.

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  • [–] 26 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Played Alan wake a couple days ago and for the first few level it was the same. But then I noticed that I lose all my stuff at the start of a new chapter. So I might as well use it.

    So maybe there is something to be said about taking away players stuff in intervals to force them to use it.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago

    That is indeed a curious mechanic

    Maybe also having more consumables in the world and less fitting in your inventory would be a good thing? So that the player feels they'll just waste it if they don't use it, and it's not that rare anyway.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 days ago*

    I like that. Anti-hoarding mechanics, I guess. I can't remember which game it was, but one I played recently recharged your mana/energy/mojo or whatever between fights, so you were encouraged to actually use the abilities instead of tediously avoiding it for most of the game. "How do I best use the total available mana for each battle" is a bit more fun than "Better pretend I don't have these abilities most of the time."

    This is similar to why I actually came to like the rapidly breaking weapons in the Switch Zelda games. Once my mindset became "don't bother hoarding good weapons, just use whatever you want because you'll just find new ones all the time" it stopped being annoying and instead kept things fresh.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago

    That's the reason that consumables and money don't carry over between levels in Thief: The Dark Project. No point in hoarding stuff, you might as well use it. Except of course that if you're good, you don't need to use any items at all - not even the blackjack.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    The consumables are for plebs that need the help. No, thanks. I'll just explore every corner of the world collecting all of the consumables in chests and pots and whatever(never using them, mind you), fighting every random encounter, and hitting the level cap before the third act. Who needs tchotchkes when I can transform into/summon a glorious esper and cast Ultima?

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  • [–] 11 points 6 days ago (6 children)

    Shattered pixel dungeon has an interesting approach: everything is unidentified, including potions. If you want to identify them, there are scrolls of identification (once you figure out which ones they are, though I believe most classes auto id them) but most of the time it's experimentation. Drink it and see what happens. Took me a bunch of runs to even realise that was something I should do (because you don't need to identify potions for them to just sit in your bag for future use, but I figured "fuck it" and tried one, which made me float, and I realized what I needed to do to get to chests in rooms full of traps without using all my hp and waiting to heal).

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago* (2 children)

    If you don't know it you should try nethack if you like SPD. Stuff being unidentified was the norm in DnD and rogue was an early attempt at making a computer game of that, with nethack being the pinnacle of that era's evolution

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Nethack is one that has been on my periphery for a while, though I never looked too closely at it (and assumed it was a game about hacking networks lol). I'll have to put some attention directly at it.

    Though I'm still on the fence about this kind of RPG tbh. Like a high level of detail in an RPG can be fun or tedious. Like these seem like games that I should be taking notes for and I'm not sure I want to give it that level of attention. That is despite seeing "How to Survive the Game as a Barbarian" and wanting a game like that lol.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago

    Btw, after looking for it on steam, which is often my first move for "find video game", just want to add a message to just go to nethack.org where you can get it for free. There are versions on steam but they are "someone grabbed a version of the free game and is trying to make money from a steam version".

    Also, the network hacking game I was thinking about is called hacknet lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago

    Id your strength and upgrade scrolls by number (and remembering which floors you found them), figure out your health potion by seeing the right enemy drop it, then turn the remainder of your (unused) potions into energy and scrolls into stones (because you dont need consumables, all the energy for my trinket! If I dont have level three mimic tooth before floor four I am restarting)

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago

    I broke this habit once growing when I decided to finish Mario and Luigi Partners in Time after a break. I had just reached the final dungeon, but before diving in I realized I had more money than I knew what to do with.

    I went to the store, got like 99 of all the cool looking items, entered the dungeon, and went to town. Every turn was a question of whether to use a power flower, hammer, or what have you. I mowed through all those end game enemies and the final boss didn’t know what hit em. It was glorious.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 days ago

    One thing that is easing me into using items is watching speedruns, of all things. Hell, I used to be an ammo hoarder for side-scrolling games that had them (Jazz Jackrabbit, Mega Man), nowadays I prefer to blast the powerful stuff

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    Replaying Bg3 makes me realize how pointless poisons are most of the time.

    Anyone beefy who I might like to debuff or DOT is inexplicably immune to poison, blindness or falling asleep. Not even just bosses, feels like anyone I can't kill in two rounds with Lae'zel is immune to these poisons I lovingly made.

    Some elixirs are cool though.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

    In my first walkthrough of BG3, I think I only ever used healing potions, and even they were situational as I tried to keep Shadowheart stocked on spell slots, and my main character was a wizard (and for a large portion of the game, Gale was in a party too)

    Oh, and I straight up didn't find Lae'zel, Karlach, or Wyll in Act 1, and I lost my chance to add Halsin and Minthara, so I was limited to casters + Astarion anyway. The game didn't accentuate that I really, really need to look around, and that only struck me in Act 2, by the point I couldn't return to Act 1. Still, I got Jaheira on my side, which basically turned every melee battle in an enclosed space into a meat grinder for enemies (wizard's Grease followed by Spike Growth and then cleric's Spirit Guardian, Astarion shooting from the rear to take down buffier and ranged enemies). Made it a challenge to get Minsc though, as hostile Boo is absolutely destroyed by this grinder too.

    Actually, returning to looking around, there's one gripe I have about most RPGs. They constantly accentuate that you need to complete the main goal ASAP. In BG3 case, everyone is concerned with removing the tadpole before turning into a mind flayer (and constantly nagging about it, making it look like a genuinely time pressing issue), and then with saving the Baldur's Gate, and it simply feels extremely unnatural to just go about your business, doing all the side quests etc. Dk about anyone else, but saving my life and then, like, everyone in Baldur's Gate sounds more important than looting another castle or helping a cow find a trinket. So, in my first walkthrough of virtually any RPG, I typically skip like 80% of all the game's content, and only then on the second one can relax and learn the world.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    I actually can't tell if the whole "this is urgent you need to hurry" in an open world game is a new trend or not but I see it everywhere too.

    Earliest I can think of is Skyrim. Everything was a big emergency. Finish one quest and the character dialogue was like "Another dragon attack! You need to get to this next quest right away! Hurry!". But it's supposed to be game designed for screwing around. I can't help but feel it's influenced this trend.

    Playing Oblivion re-mastered I'm realizing Oblivion wasn't this way. The stakes were high but much more of the dialogue was like "Ready yourself, take the time you need, and we'll talk next steps". There's important stuff to handle but exploring dungeons was treated as you getting prepared to handle the big bad.

    Impending dragon attacks in Skyrim, missing son in Fallout 4, turning into a mindflayer in Bg3. These feel urgent, not conducive to exploration and meeting everyone and crafting potions and shopping for deals on weapons.

    All that being said I had the same problem in Bg3. Didn't long rest enough in the beginning because of it.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

    Interestingly, Skyrim was exactly the thing I thought of when thinking of this trope's origin, so there could indeed be something to it.

    Recently however, I've seen an interesting spin on it in The Blood of Dawnwalker. There, too, you are faced with a time-pressing issue as part of your main quest, but the difference is: it is actually time-pressing. You can fail one of the main objectives of the game by not being there in time. And while it is debatable whether it's good for the exploration aspect of the game and whether it presses the player too much, at least it is consistent.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    I had to actively push myself out of thinking this way. When a game hands something like a consumable to the player, it should be expected that they could use it at any point in time. If that item is non-renewable and certain encounters are designed around needing that item, then you actually playing a puzzle game that lets you permanently destroy the puzzle pieces with no warning.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    Yeah, I also slowly come to this realization. Having completed so many games without any consumables at all makes me more confident :D

    Besides, this should be worked through game design. If a player uses consumables in battle, chances are it's already challenging enough. If it is then followed by harder fights and the player is empty, they will likely just ragequit at some point not to come there again, or will constantly switch the game's difficulty if it's available, which makes for an inconsistent and cheaty-feeling gameplay.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (1 child)

    I think a lot of us have played some super difficult RPG where you get softlocked due to not having enough resources, or punished for using them.

    For example, the last game I played, I had the choice of consuming a mushroom for healing. I chose not to and struggled through several boss fights. Later in the game, you can exchange that mushroom for a significant permanent stat upgrade. If I'd used the mushroom, I would have missed out on the upgrade.

    Another example; I played a brutally hard tactics game, and I used all my potions and revives on a really hard fight. The next fight was even harder, and I was completely unable to finish the game without restarting. I didn't keep multiple save files.

    Games should stop punishing us for consuming consumables. The reason we hoard everything is because we've been trained to do so.

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