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I was only gone for a day or two... (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (19 children)

There was a post about making cats vegan. The mod then decided that people posting information on why that is a bad idea were antivegan or something. The mod started then removing any information that pointed to cats not being able to be health while on a vegan diet. The Lemmy.world admins them stepped in stating that improperly feeding your cat constitutes animal abuse and is unethical. This made many die hard vegans very mad.

For the record, cats can not be vegan. They can survive on it but they will have shorter more painful lives and they will go blind. There bodies start breaking down without the proteins and amino acids found in meat. I understand why vegans would be unhappy with that answer but it is the way it is.

Interesting enough, that's not the case for dog. You can put a dog on a vegan diet as long as you are very careful and are constantly monitoring. It isn't for the faint of heart and can have very sad outcomes. It isn't something you can arbitrarily do.

[–] PixellatedDave@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

I am a vegan. While my dogs were alive they ate meat as well as veggies. It seems to me that a lot of vegans don't realise that it's a scale and not binary. The whole philosophy of veganism is "as much as you are able" so I guess there is extremism everywhere.

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's bizarre to me that harcore vegans want to own a pet to begin with. Keeping bees for honey is bad, but separating a kitten from its mother at an early age and castrating it for your convenience and deciding how they live (restricted to an apartment or not) is totally fine?

I understand that most pets live a good life, but man, I can't bring myself to make choices like these. I mean there are ways to circumvent it (get an older cat from an asylum for example) but it doesn't really remove the "pet dilemma" to me.

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

I knew a hardcore vegan girl like a decade ago when it was rather rare to see someone to that extreme, or at least to me. She said she feeds her cat only vegan food, and i was pretty sure that that's not a thing, but i didn't really know. Her roommate then told me that she goes through quite a lot of cats, because they either die or run away.

[–] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 years ago

Most people I know adopt from rescue shelters and all the vegans I know do that, often even focusing on pets that are somewhat "disadvantaged" regarding getting adopted, i.e. disabled or chronically ill animals. They go to an animal shelter not primarily with the wish of having a pet but providing a better life for an animal (because let's face it, even the best-intentioned shelters are understaffed and underfunded).

[–] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 years ago

I understand why vegans would be unhappy with that answer but it is the way it is.

I don't. Veganism is about the fact that humans can live without animal products, which is true. Not accepting that actual carnivores exist, even being unhappy with this means you're well in extremist nutjob territory.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm vegan and I don't know why these "vegans" are towing the line to to include non-human species. It's just as gross for vegan humans to apply their values to values in a dominant manner as it is for non-vegans to. Literally vegans doing this is antithesis to the entire cause.

I'm glad they got slapped. You'll always have idiots in a movement I guess...

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What I don't understand about all of this is the consent aspect: your cat/dog/pet did not consent to a vegan diet, so why are you forcing it on them? Obviously you can't ask your pet what they want for dinner, but left to their own devices, I doubt any of them would choose a vegan diet, so... Why force it on them?

Even ignoring all of the science and everything, morally/ethically, it just feels messed up to me. It'd be like forcing your child to eat food they're allergic to because it's healthier/more ethical, despite it causing health issues for them.

Absolutely wild

[–] erin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't have a dog in this race, but it seems to me the obvious answer to your consent dilemma is "no animal consents to being eaten." I feed my cat a non-vegan diet, for the record. I'm just not pretending that the fish likes it or anything. If a perfectly healthy vegan diet is possible for a cat, which I'm honestly not clear on, then it's definitely ethical to do so.

If you extrapolated the moral dilemma to the extreme, it would be like saying "it's unethical to take the knife away from that serial murderer. He just wants to murder and he didn't consent to stopping!" Obviously, that's a ridiculous comparison, but so is making the consent argument. My point isn't that feeding cats meat is wrong (again, I feed my cat meat), it's that making a consent argument against veganism is silly.

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

True, no animal consents to being eaten, and I understand veganism is meant to eliminate or mitigate unnecessary animal products from one's diet, but I don't think "no animal consents to being eaten" works here. That's nature (and yes, I'm ignoring that humans are part of nature, despite our best efforts to think we aren't), you can't change nature. You're not going to get a lion or a shark to stop being a carnivorous predator because that's just what they are.

I also don't necessarily agree with your knife argument: a serial killer does not need to kill to survive, whereas living things need to eat to survive. I don't think the consent argument is as ridiculous as that, I would more equate it to an infirm cancer patient being given chemotherapy drugs versus homeopathy treatment. They can't consent to either, but one is clearly meant to try to fix the issue, whereas the other is a personal choice.

Veganism is a personal choice, cats needing meat in their diet is not. I have nothing against veganism, and I appreciate your arguments (I hadn't considered the "not consenting to be eaten" aspect). Idk, to me, people who force their diets/lifestyles onto their pets that aren't equipped for it, it's just... Immoral? I'm blanking on the word, it's been a long week.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 years ago

animals don't consent to anything, any more than trees or machines. it is absurd to discuss consent from something that can not be informed.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Disclaimer that I'm not even a vegan but you're spreading disinfo here to make vegans seem completely unreasonable. I suggest anyone check out the actual discussions instead of trusting this summary.

[–] Exatron@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Cats are obligate carnivores, sparky. That means they can't be vegan.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know enough about that topic to argue for or against which is not what I'm trying to argue

[–] Lightor@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

You don't know enough about the topic to argue but claim someone else is spreading misinformation.

Well if you don't know the topic but are making claims like this then it seems like you may be the one spreading misinformation.

[–] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

Show me a scientific study that proves this. If you can say it with confidence, it should be no trouble at all for you to prove it. I, on the other hand, am lazy and don't care all that much, so I want the people confidently stating opinions to share their research to save me effort.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree.

I'm not a expert so you should read up on it. The problem is that the vegan community was only allowing random studies saying how cats were healthier on a vegan diet. None of those papers were peer reviewed or all that credible. On the other side there is tons of research and articles written by actual experts that say it is a bad idea. I looked it up before making this comment.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (14 children)

Vegans argued that cats, which are obligate carnivores, can eat a vegan diet safely. Lemmy.world admin removed the posts for being misinformation, and the vegan community threw a fit over it.

[–] Chozo@fedia.io 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ask your vet what they think about a vegan diet for your pets. They will tell you "no". That should really be the end to the discussion, but I guess these guys think they know better than actual experts.

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's so sad, because veganism is a good force in our culture. Look at all of the vegan meat alternatives and more and more restaurants that have to have at least vegetarian options in certain areas. That wasn't a thing 20 years ago.

Vegan diets help the environment and improve health. But many vegans get this brain rot, probably a consequence of a superiority complex where they have to police everything around them. It happens in a lot of communities.

I'm not a vegan. But the idea has me eating less and less meat every year.

[–] Zier@fedia.io 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think people confuse the Political Based Vegan lifestyle and the Dietary Plant-based Vegan. They are not the same. Most people hate the political wing because they just cannot shut up. I do not want to be subjected to your religion, and you are not helping the animals you claim to. Dietary people just choose healthier options for themselves and don't evangelize to others.

[–] Teppichbrand@feddit.org 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This checks the Vegan Bullshit Bingo:
Calling veganism a religion sounds like an attempt at discrediting it as unreasonable and irrational, just to not seriously deal with it. As veganism is based on facts, logic and common sense, it is the exact opposite of a religion. Consuming animal products though, mostly means blindly following irrational traditions and ignoring the facts or refusing them by reasoning: "That's how we've always done it". That sounds more like a religion to me...

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[–] umbraroze@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Apropos of nothing - a few months ago I was looking at one of the sites that curated Fediverse block lists. (Can't remember which one.)

Now some of the blocks were quite reasonable. If a hundred site admins look at your site and go "wait a second, these guys are Nazis" and block the site, that's not so controversial, OK?

But some of the blocks were, uh, how do I put this...?

Individual drama between site admins and their cliques.

Beef.
So much beef.
So much beef that I immediately thought "gee, how can c/vegan even safely exist in Lemmy? There's so much beef everywhere."

[–] recklessengagement@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Until I joined Lemmy I had no idea how militant vegans could be. I sorta just assumed they were a different brand of vegetarian.

I'm not opposed to their ideaology in any way, but after reading the comments on a few posts that found their way into my feed... I had to block their communities. It didn't seem likely that I'd be reading any productive discourse there.

[–] Mediocre_Bard@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (7 children)

I was vegan for 8 years and during that time I didn't talk to anyone about it other than to say, "I don't eat that."

I say that to say this - vegans are insufferable and a large reason why I quit the community and went back to omnivore. Even after 8 years, other vegans were still 'more vegan' and would nitpick the dumbest stuff.

"Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool."

Shut up with that. Let me eat my damn fruit.

I was healthier though. But, to be fair, I was younger.

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 2 years ago

"Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool.”

I'm a level 5 vegan. I won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

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[–] AccountMaker@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago

Exactly my experience. I often heard stories of vegans being like that, but I never ever saw it so I thought it was just made up to belittle vegans.

Then I joined lemmy and found out that I'm apparently in favour of massacres, slavery and rape because I consume meat/milk/eggs from time to time.

I imagine the vast majority of vegans just go about their lives and resprectfully discuss the ethics of animal consumption when the topic comes up, but these loud militant members really make vegans look bad and they sure as hell make it so that even less people consider going vegan

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[–] greedytacothief@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I have lots of friends that are vegan/have been vegan, or are sympathetic to the cause. IRL I have had some wonderful conversations about veganism and the ethics of our diet. But on the Internet it's the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass. It's like there's no nuance to any conversation, like sorry I can be Peter Singer, it's actually kinda difficult to be that moral.

[–] jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Censorship of dissidence discussions due to "misinformation," "disinformation," and only allowing "science."

Our science institutions and media are just as corrupt as our politicians; that is why critical thinking should be encouraged instead of more censorship to baby the people. 

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Keeping predatory grifters away from health discourse is on a different level than discussions of differing opinions.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (5 children)

This person you’re replying to is basically Lemmy’s Goebbels.

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