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[–] 177 points 2 months ago (19 children)

The exact same thing they said about japanese-made cars in the 70s and in both cases they were right because american cars are trash.

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  • [–] 117 points 2 months ago* (10 children)

    I mean the CEO of Ford said it was humbling when he traveled to China to see what they were doing. Then he imported a Xiaomi SU7 to Michigan apparently so they could "study" it. The U.S. called that reverse engineering anytime China did such when I was growing up.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    IIRC, some executive at Ford imported a Chinese EV and prefers it over their own cars, says he won't give it up.

    That's how captive the US is as an auto market. You think that guy is going to stop lobbying to prevent the cars he sees as cheaper and better from competing against his product?

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It's the same CEO, Jim Farley. He knows American manufacturing is smoked cause they can't keep relying on F150s forever.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I guess i dont understand the loyalty, if i was that guy id go to the chinese and be their main importer. Fuck ford their cars are plainly inferior, but jim farley is a free man and he can just call the chinese up and tell them he'll be the ceo of xiaomi USA and bring in their superior cars. That's how competition is supposed to work!

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    If you look at history from the 60s to 2000s, America has a history of blaming another country for "stealing", then creating laws to slow them down only to adopt it because Americans can't build it as well.

    America then reclaimed some market value with technology in the 2000s. But we're also at the mercy of the hardware.

    I think America is banking on AI heavily, and other countries will do it cheaper (thanks to hardware, so called "stealing", and having better power supplies). America is reaching its peak and going into free fall.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    They've all lost foreign markets, no one wants American cars (usually not even made in America) so they'll bribe our government so we have to buy them.

    The wealthy can afford luxury imports.

    The problem is the whole bailout culture, if existing companies can't fail, new ones can't replace them. Innovaters are forced out or bought up and diluted.

    And eventually that means they can't compete with foreign companies who weren't hamstrung like this.

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  • [–] 47 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Well too fucking bad UAW and NADA both supported trump and now here come the leopards to eat their faces.

    Trump pisses off our closest ally Canada and now they have given a toe hold in NA to China, and continue to boycott America products and tourism. The tourism alone has taken away 1.3 billion so far this year.

    Chinese cars are coming and there's nothing these fucks can do about.

    Fuck them.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    It's wild people are still surprised about union corruption...

    Corporations and the government have an incentive for corrupt unions, so they're not going to reign in the problematic ones.

    It's on the voting members of every union to keep their own union in line.

    They literally just vote for whatever benefits their industry directly.

    Military was the same way, I got lined and my direct chain walked a very fine line talking about if we wanted to vote for someone that would expand the military meaning more slots for promotions, or someone that would reduce by attrition and no one gets promotions for four years.

    It's a real thing and should be obvious to anyone, which again is why it's wild people don't know why it keeps happening.

    When resources are scarce people get selfish.

    We fight that by ensuring everyone has enough so they don't have to feel selfish, then we can out otw the minority who will always be selfish.

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    [–] 42 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    The irony is: the original theory of capitalism (in contrast with the clusterfuck that we have now) was based on the idea that competition breeds innovation - because those who didn't innovate would go out of business due to being surpassed by the others.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    And China is kinda steamrolling US in a lot of markets right now.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Mostly in the areas of custom fabs, general manufacturing and not being run by fucking idiots.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    I don't work in manufacturing, in work for a giant popular retail company.

    I swear to Christ, I have zero clue how it has survived under the gross incompetence of our leadership. I have never witnessed such stupidity in all my life.

    These guys are beyond the pale. Getting mad and emotional and making stupid decisions on vibes. When their nonsense fails, they just blame it on anything but themselves and do the next dumb thing. If we didn't have stores everywhere, we would be dead. We only survive because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    They have subsidize the shit out of their industry by keeping their citizens capital tied up in their banking, housing and stock market. It is hard to get capital out of China now and only the very wealthy can pull it off.

    So yes if the government took a good chunk of the interest or revenues you’d make from your investments yes you can have the same subsidized industries.

    In their defense they are also willing to let bad companies go under which is something the US hasn’t done since the 90s.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    China still calls itself "communist with Chinese characteristics". They quite openly gave their companies strategic goals to fulfill.

    It's all the dorks thinking they could get hold of that sweet big market if only they gave China enough concessions. And there it was always only for the bosses and owners to participate in the windfall, employees be damned. They were played big time and payed themselves huge bonuses in the mean time for selling us out.

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    [–] 29 points 2 months ago

    Its because they don't actually want free markets. They want captive markets in a corrupt system that they can influence. The last thing want is to be forced to make a decent product at an affordable price

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Capitalists don't like honest competition, since it requires them to research positive innovations.

    But Marx tells us (in Das Kapital ) that the capitalist will always be seek to bypass regulations and ultimately capture the regulating government.

    And yes, the scientific advancements of the moon shots returned $14 for every $1 spent. Using that as a reference, lobbying federal and state governments return $120 for every $1 spent.

    TIL private equity consolidated all the firetruck manufacturers into a single entity, and then slowed the rate of production, more than doubling the price and the wait time. Firehouses can no longer afford trucks.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Honestly, calling people like this Capitalists is like likening all communists to Stalin. The idea of capitalism is based on competition. If you are eroding competition, you are eroding capitalism.

    But Marx tells us (in Das Kapital ) that the capitalist will always be seek to bypass regulations and ultimately capture the regulating government.

    I am assuming he neglected to mention that the same type of people will seek to capture the government in any system. Socialist, communist, capitalist, feudal, doesn't matter.

    The means they use to capture the government are different. To intention is the same.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    This appears the fundamental flaw in every single governance system we've tried thus far. The sociopaths will always take over, consolidate power, and abuse and exploit everyone else for their own benefit.

    Capitalism or Communism, both as vulnerable, both have failed for the same reasons as far as I can make out.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago

    It wouldn't be devastating if you read the room and made AFFORDABLE ANYTHING. Why do you think your own company couldn't keep the $20k Maverick in stock for years? Why do you think your $100k Lightning didn't sell well?

    Make affordable, decent vehicles, and you won't have to worry about overseas competition.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago

    When they want to move manufacturing or people lose their jobs ... these guys are all "this is just business".

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    This is backwards. Capitalism is the disruption of free markets to create extraordinary profits for some and higher costs for most. Ford is doing Capitalism. What Capitalists don't want are free markets.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Capitalism is when the government buys a stake in Intel, or tries to invest in AI companies or tariffs the world, or ...

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    [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Once again proving that corporations have no beliefs apart from "Make more money."

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Devastating... like having Dump's policies close your manufacturing locations down and have to layoff all the workers? That kind of devastation?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Nooooo, you have to let us ship all aspects of car manufacturing overseas while we pocket the profits and use that money to attack green energy!

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    I love competition! Except when I lose then competition is bad I need to change the rules so I'm the only one who wins. Yes I am way more deserving than other humans because I am me. And me is better.

    Checkmate!

    Wait, new rule you have to checkmate twice in a row to win.

    Checkmate again!

    New rule it only counts if we just ate salmon before playing.

    Very good dish, checkmate!

    New rule, you have to be me to checkmate.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    The Ford that has moved a bunch of their manufacturing to Mexico after carving out a tariff exemption from vehicles manufactured there?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Invisible hand at work

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    If a manufacturer without labor laws competes with a manufacturer with labor laws it’s just not a fair fight

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Are you referring to the US as the country without labor rights?

    • China does not allow at-will employment
    • Non-compete agreements in China are extremely limited and rarely applied to anyone below senior management
    • Wages and overtime are (theoretically) more strict than the US
    • China has paid vacation time that increases through years of employment regardless of company, more public holidays, marriage leave, parental leave, bereavement leave, and more
    • Discrimination and harassment must be proactively prevented in Chinese workplaces (though US workers are more aggressive in pursuing legal rights)
    • Chinese workers earn a pension, along with several types of social insurances
    • Workplace health and safety enforcement is increasing in China, as opposed to weakening enforcement in the US
    • Severance pay is required on most instances of termination in China (exceptions for performance and conduct exist)

    Source

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    America is nuts.

    America has modern day slavery and we have states that are squishing the child labor laws.

    Not to mention many folks who retire in America will be destitute because there is no social safety net.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago*

    Disgusting to hear about elders living in cars. It really sucks and to be honest me and my whole family are only a few paychecks away from losing everything. All the while expenses are increasing much fast than our income. We are starting to consider desperate ideas like making our own bread instead of buying it just to save money. Things are getting progressively more bonkers.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Chinese cars can't be sold in the US?

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    [–] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    There's plenty of competition in the US auto market, both from US, Japanese and European brands.

    The difference is these cars are either made in the US or in countries with similar enough wages. Even cars made in mexico are required to have a $16 minimum wage as part of USMCA.

    China is on a different level and allowing them to sell cars here without restrictions would cause a race to the bottom for wages in the auto sector, pushing back a lot of wins the UAW has gotten recently.

    If they want to sell cars here they should get the same deal as mexico, require a minimum wage and labor standards.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Other than us crazies on the left, I don't remember anyone giving a fuck when industries were being obliterated in the global south because of WTO rules. All I remember is stories about competitive advantage, English cloth and Portuguese wine.

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