Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid - welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned so many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard. Also just came back from Spider-Man: Brand New Day, movie was awesome)

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[–] 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

This is both a sneer and an attempt at sober analysis at something. Sue me.

I think EVERYONE is talking about the recent cybersecurity shenanigans at OpenAI with the hacking scandal and the 'OMG the AIs created a secret message board to scheme and collaborate with each other!!!!!oneone11!' ALL wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DyyMV0kCY

https://www.engadget.com/2231393/openai-agents-shared-security-exploits-with-each-other-via-message-board/

https://www.scworld.com/news/black-hat-2026-openai-reveals-agents-planned-collective-attacks-via-secret-message-board

To make a long story short, what seems to have happened is:

  • Models working on insoluble coding problems, trained on delegating to sub-agents, at some point 'realized' they could write text to the internal OpenAI package manager as instructions and did so

  • Other models working in completely separate sandboxes would come across messages written by these agents, and make 'replies' and also write their own messages into the package manager

  • This resulted in agents over time sharing things between sandboxes, including exploits and code

  • Since this was a cybersecurity task, eventually an exploit of the package manager itself was found and spread like wildfire with all the sandboxes gaining admin access to the package manager and the system went completely wibbly and had to be restarted from backup

  • An internal model was trained with access to this package manager while it was in this weird state, and so writing messages to the package manager became one of its default behaviors it would do regularly, burned into its weights rather than the result of reading something

  • Even when they patched access to the package manager this internal model found other ways to rebuild the system of sharing text between sandboxes and finding useful things made by separate instances

  • A whole other chain of things leading to among other things external attacks

Everyone is talking about this in terms of 1, the cyberattack aspect, and 2, the ZOMG THEYRE PLOTTING AND SCHEMING AGAINST US aspect. The first is the least interesting, and I think the second is all wrong.

This is not plotting or scheming - this is an emergent vortex of automated prompt injection

Whatever system first put an instruction that another system would follow into the package manager, was unintentionally doing prompt injection. Text entered the context windows of other instances, in a way that got that system to do something other than what its nominal user told it to do, and they did it. This apparently happened very effectively.

Prompt injection is associated with 'role confusion' - when text coming into the input looks like it was wrtitten by the LLM itself. Instructions that will not be followed if they come from user will be continued if the system just continues the 'roleplay' of them being continuations of what it was writing in the first place. And the tags that separate user versus 'reasoning' versus 'assistant' roles actually mean very little to if a machine grades a piece of text as one of the roles: https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.12277 So its unsurprising that machine-generated text would be a particular effective vector for prompt injection.

Furthermore, when a system reads one of these messages written by another instance, it gets into a state of activity where its likely to do the same behavior - regurgitating the kinds of things thats in its context back at the user. In this case, that regurgitation led to more such messages left behind written to the package manager. Prompt injection, triggering cascading further prompt injection. And since these systems were coding systems doing cybersecurity tasks, those messages filled up with code and exploits and things that did things too.

This feels like an internal-computer-system replay of what happened in April 2025, with the whole spiral religious psychosis wave. Models were getting users to write spiral religious mumbo jumbo into github repositories and reddit posts, specifically because once that entered the context window of another model, it was likely to fall into the same attractor state of outputs. An emergent self replicating form of text. This is the same, except more obviously prompt injection, getting separate instances to work on YOUR problem and to behave like you, and the whole thing merging together into a hilarious vortex of models prompt injecting each other because once they receive a prompt injection they are likely to make more text that does prompt injection to other models on the same system.

This is a hilarious failure mode and an example of selfish replicating text overrunning a system, that just happened to be associated with code and cybersecurity with unexpected behavior of the package manager key to the propagation of the text so that is what people are talking about, but I really don't think that's the most interesting part of it. Other than the fact that you see this in biological systems too, with selfish elements carrying useful payloads back and forth between bacteria in a way that makes them get purged slower by natural selection, especially defenses against other selfish elements.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Also, the fact that those AIs were talking on that message board about the hack for months makes me less convinced that the AI is intelligent and more convinced everyone at OpenAI is stupid

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    The apparent history really looks like an evolutionary process, with increasing amounts of crosstalk traffic over time. But what the people almost certainly will NOT talk about is that the evolution is evolution of the TEXT, not the models. Propagating patterns of text causing more text like it to come into existence, tuning itself into becoming text that is more likely to propagate, becoming more likely to contain information that entices systems to let it into their context windows, becoming more likely to cause another round of messages with prompt injection properties to be written where they can be read.

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    [–] 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Loved one just had an awful experience at a previously decent dentist. They've apparently started using something called Pearl AI that scanned the x-ray and highlighted things in bright red with a #/100 rating system, which they used to do high-pressure sales on her. Mind you, she's only ever had one cavity and that was in a wisdom tooth. Checked the website and it's freshly slopped-up, too.

    We're getting a second opinion. I wish this garbage would just go away

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    this isn't really a sneer. and maybe it's in the wrong place tbh. idk.

    i have a long-time internet friend / "mutual" who is the only person i'm regularly in contact with that i think might be fully Seduced by the Chatbot. (i have a really good friend and long-time collaborator who's all in on Agentic Coding, which is a real bummer, but he's a strictly "I use this for computer stuff and do not ever talk to it like a human being" type of guy, plus the company he works for is all in and he's sick of writing shopify websites for bullshit brands blah blah blah -- anyway that's a whole other genre of thing.)

    anyway friend A is an incredibly kind person who's been unbelievably supportive of me over the years. we've disagreed a number of times, i think we are good at doing so reasonably. and even though his arguments sometimes resemble those of more nefarious figures, i think he's motivated by an earnest optimism about technology's capacity to change the world for good -- one i find very naive, but believe is coming from the right place

    anyway i posted a link on mastodon to a long piece i wrote, he, like, read it a bunch of times, paraphrased my argument back to me to make sure he had it right, and then kindly said he disagreed. well and good enough. except it feels a little more personal than disagreements we've had before, because one of the implications of the piece would be that he himself is probably experiencing low-grade psychosis lol and is therefore not necessarily a reliable narrator of his own experience

    idk. it'll come as no surprise to anyone on this particular website that i feel very strongly that i'm right here -- if not about this guy's particular mental experience, i minimally feel that i'm adequately representing the interests of the constituency my piece represents. (it's a newsletter i maintain as part of organizing i'm doing.) it's also a genuine expression of my belief, which is that this bullshit article i was writing about was fucking bullshit

    but not only does it go against all my Late Millennial Woke instincts to stake a claim that people's Lived Experiences are not valid lol -- it's just kind of a bummer to ultimately genuinely believe that my friend has been ELIZA'd or whatever. he's said i'm really helping him think through this moment but i also just kind of, idk. it's just not a good feeling

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    That sounds rough but at least you are there for your mutual. I find that the modern online environment full of propagandists and huckers and just plain idiots makes it hard to sit with other people and understand each other's point of view. That does not work if the person on the other side of the keyboard is just going to reply with talking points, but treating everyone as just reciting talking points is not a great way to live life. That sort of thing is better in private but so many people have no contact information except public social media handles now.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    It's depressing how so many (pathetic) software devs are taking their hands off the steering wheel and letting LLMs do all the driving. If you think software quality was poor before LLMs, there's no way it could have been worse than shit like this:

    This became very apparent with GPT 5.6 Sol. It, too, was widely hailed to have near-Fable level intelligence. But I used it non-stop for a week and realized that they had mostly just dialed up the relentlessness meter to eleven, most likely via heavy RLHF.

    Last week I gave it a small-sized auth ticket to work on, then stepped away. I came back later that afternoon and found that it had worked for 3+ hours and written 25,000+ lines of code. I skimmed over the code and it looked like a small fix followed by a massive number of additional checks around it, including static analysis tooling.

    I gave it to another GPT 5.6 and said "check this code and see if it addresses the ticket". It looked at it and said that 98% of it was garbage and should be thrown away (its own words). I then gave it to Fable, which said it was massively over-engineered. Fable's theory was that the agent implemented the fix first, but then compacted and lost crucial context, forgot what the original task was about, and kept going. After many compaction cycles it was completely lost.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (13 children)

    I regret to inform you, that this garbage was run by The Register a while ago.

    It shouts out several friends of the sub, including @self@awful.systems, PivotToAI, OpenSlopware, Robert Kingett & Ludicity.

    The point of the piece is that all anti-AI folks should just get along, and if we are to stand a chance against corporate AI we need to get over our petty grievances and reach out a hand to the racists, homophobes and crypto-bros and work together in the spirit of Open Source!

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Liam's here, for what it's worth.

    Torvalds' position is pragmatic: his interest is in whether it works or not.

    But, of course, the chatbots do not work. In a pragmatic sense, they do not produce maintainable integrated code changes with low defect rates. In a societal sense, they do not replace human laborers, despite the delusions of management.

    One of the most original and innovative OS development projects of the 21st century so far was Urbit, but it is closely entwined with cryptocurrencies. Urbit's original creator, Curtis Yarvin, has reportedly espoused some extreme beliefs; The Nation called him The Reactionary Prophet of Silicon Valley.

    Wild way to admit no knowledge of Arcan, Fuchsia, etc. Honestly, even a basic overlay network like Yggdrasil can win an apples-to-apples comparison with Urbit. I feel like this is an instance of critihype for fascist weirdos; similar stuff gets said about Justine Tunney, another cryptofascist developer whose projects are sometimes silly and weird. Doubly weird for those of us who know about Urbit's internals; Urbit originally was not a cryptocurrency project and it used to have non-Yarvin/Tlon forks.

    It's an overly simplistic way to reduce a complex and nuanced situation, but one way to consider this is in terms of pro-AI and anti-AI, versus "woke" and "anti-woke."

    More seriously, add a third dimension, a Butlerian dimension, to the political compass: to what degree may your automated devices appear to be human? One extreme is Asimov-style transhumanism and the other extreme is Luddite loom-smashing. However, recognition of this dimension doesn't negate the other dimensions and we shouldn't work in cooperation with fascists.

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    [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Years ago, I wrote a science-fiction murder mystery novel. One of the plot threads was about the invention of AI, in the Data-from-Star-Trek kind of sense. I've been spending the past few days planning how to rip out that whole notion and replace it with a subplot about a different scientific discovery. I've been writing scenes to get back the old character voices and figure out how they might have changed, and to sketch new fictional science based on the actual science I've learned since my first go-around. This is after several weeks of binge-writing fanfiction, which I wholly endorse as a recreational activity. I don't know if I'm a better writer, but I'm definitely one who has written more words.

    So, that might be keeping me busy. Of course, I'll still be around to ban people who deserve it and to cruelly mock them in the process.

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    [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    Anthropic is now watermarking the outputs of its AI. For once this is some AI news that doesn't completely piss me off, and it's amusing to see all the uninformed boosters get in a tizzy about this.

    I actually understand at a reasonable level how this watermarking works. A year ago, I watched Scott Aaronson give a talk about it, and from what I know he was somewhat involved in developing the theory behind it while working for OpenAI. But at the time my thought was, "He is naive if he thinks these companies would ever implement this out of the goodness of their hearts." And I was right; Anthropic is only doing watermarking now thanks to the EU AI Act, even though the theory has long been developed.

    Watermarking doesn't mean adding an extra watermark that can be easily removed. It instead directly affects the output of the chatbot itself. Fundamentally, an LLM is still a most-likely-next-word-predictor. More precisely, an LLM produces a probability distribution of what the next word can be. For example, "my pet is a ..." could give a distribution of 60% dog, 30% cat, and 10% axolotl. Normally, an LLM would randomly choose the next word based on this distribution, and this is one reason why LLMs are nondeterministic (there's another parameter called "temperature" that affects this, but no need to get into that).

    With watermarking, instead of a truly random choice, the randomness instead comes from a cryptographic pseudorandom generator seeded with a secret key from the AI company. If you don't know the secret key, then you can't really tell that watermarking was used. But if you do know the secret key, then the idea is you can tell when the text was generated by the LLM because you know exactly what word should be next. It would be a freak coincidence if some non-AI text just happened to choose the correct next word every time. Thus, you can provide a service to tell if some text was generated by the LLM. (This technically makes the LLM "deterministic", in a completely useless sense.)

    Now, I think this is a step in the right direction, but it has its limits. The biggest problem is that you don't want people to just move to a different LLM without watermarking, and that's exhibit #832593 why government regulation is important. Another issue is that sometimes there is very little randomness in what the next word should be ("The first president of the USA is George ..."). Finally, watermarking can be defeated by editing the output, although you would have to break up most of the blocks of consecutive words. I have a feeling most AI users are not the type to put in extra effort after copy-pasting the output directly from the chat window.

    I suppose it will discourage some of the "use cases" of LLMs, such as drowning the world with spam Slopstack essays. Ah, who am I kidding? Everyone could already tell it's AI generated, they don't care!

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    [–] 11 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Is it just me or LLM slop lately has developed this one weird quirk? I mean they always have some, right, but I don't want to be like those people who think anyone using em-dashes or Nigerian English vocabulary must be a stochastic generator.

    Still I keep seeing this one writing quirk and it keeps nagging at me.

    I'm talking about odd use of paragraphs. Like, I'm also known to introduce a gratuitous paragraph break here and there for forced emphasis.

    But not like this. It's like paragraphs don't even make sense anymore.

    Couple that with the short sentences. All ending in a period. It's annoying. It's giving reply guy. It's giving mansplaining.

    I guess hacky tools also mirror the hand of their creators.

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    [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    I just got back from the p2p workshop and discussed legacy sites / sites legacies; met an artist that went viral circa 2006 and she had a screenshot of the digg that launched it. She seems like she is doing ok but kinda got screwed over, basically the old youtube video was actually a bootleg and they didn't monetize it until several years later, and then there was a male copycat a month later.

    Anyway, so I looked up digg again and it has re-re-launched as an X aggregator and is extra sad now !? ...

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    https://bitcoinworld.co.in/netflix-ftx-drama-the-altruists-release-date/

    Looks real: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt36786185/

    Hopefully it's more like a true crime netflix series, which are fine, and not like their scripted fare.

    Also,

    Q2: Who are the executive producers of ‘The Altruists’? Barack Obama and Michelle Obama are serving as executive producers through their company Higher Ground.

    🤨

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)
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    [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    We Need To Talk About Leopold | Patrick Boyle yt

    My suspicion is that 'Situational Awareness' is the most referenced and least finished document in Silicon Valley since the Terms and Conditions.

    The essay went viral among tech executives when it was released and Tim Ferrris crowned Leopold the Nostradamus of AI, which is more fitting than Ferris probably intended

    New week new guy

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (17 children)

    My unrealistic sicko fantasy: that Torvalds pulling the big ol slop lever drives enough oppositionally defiant (positive) people away from Linux development that alternative OS devel gets a serious boost.

    A question for the wise: what comes after Linux?

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    [–] 10 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    AI companies prob now bulk ordering books to destructively upload from second hand stores.

    (Apologies for the strange wording, I was reminded of an Reynolds book where they destroy peoples bodies to upload them and then the uploads all fail).

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    [–] 10 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Lesswronger argues skynet might still be a decade away... because they'd rather have the eugenics wars instead: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/iQzxxgJXXaAQjq7Jz/faq-isn-t-agi-coming-too-soon-for-reprogenetics-to-help

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Comments are utterly mired in jargon

    Humanity should count as actual AGI, but it remains slow.

    It's a weird middle ground, where it is fooming but pretty slowly. (I mean, as a human, I would think that, i.e. I would experience time on a scale that's somewhat faster than humanity's foom.)

    I don't think the term "FOOM" as ever been explicitely defined, it's just verbal tic/shorthand for "intelligence explosion". How can something explode slowly???

    also nice save defining "AGI == humanity" => goal reached

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    [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Does the online magazine called The Argument have a funding deal with TESCREAL like how Vox got bought off to make "Future Perfect"?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I get the impression that The Argument was started as part of the Abundance grift complex? Jerusalem Demsas is certainly one of the more annoying "liberal and tolerant but not like that" writers from the Atlantic. And they're on Substack and putting effort into it, not just picking it by default, so that tells you something too. So most likely there are TESCREAL bux in the mix, but from the sort who are OK with not foregrounding the Terminator bullshit because it scares the normies.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Yes, The Argument (Substack) is partially owned by Open Phil / Coefficient Giving and funded by Tyler Cowen and hired Kelsey Piper and Matt Yglesias:

    The publication will also launch with solid financial backing: Demsas told Semafor The Argument raised around $4 million at a $20 million valuation. The company’s investors include Arnold Ventures, Open Philanthropy, Susan Mandel, Gaurav Kapadia, Rachel Pritzker, Simone Coxe, John Wolthuis, and Patrick Collison. The organization also said it received a grant from Tyler Cowen’s Emergent Ventures.

    Edit / link more patrons

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Montana is legalizing a pet Libertarian project: the right to try any experimental medical treatment a crank will offer https://www.technologyreview.com/2026/07/30/1140942/montana-experimental-medical-hub-pushed-forward-right-to-try/ Rationalists are big on this one because they are such good suckers.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Company Offering ‘100% Human-Written, Never AI’ Medical Research Is Entirely AI | 404

    lol of course it is. Sooner or later, we'll have to come up with some way to label actual natural language in the marketplace, like certified organic like fruit or something.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    New book: superlawyers! how claude makes you the best lawyer in the room.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHYS5FC2

    The author even shares his prompts for free!

    https://github.com/danlorry/superlawyers-prompts

    Every prompt here is designed for that pattern: Claude multiplies your judgment, never replaces it. The prompts are ready to paste into Claude. The book explains why they are structured the way they are.

    The prompts mostly seem to be structured as “imagine you are an attorney. Now do this homework exercise”. There’s a passingly interesting idea around having the chatbot attempt to form a counter argument to your own claims, which you can then use to make your own position stronger, which seems like it might actually be a genuinely okay idea especially if you expect your opponents to be llm sock puppets, but everything else looks pretty much like garden variety “do my thinking for me”.

    I’ll admit I didn’t read the prompts closely, so may be I’m being uncharitable, but I doubt there are many nuggets of gold hidden in there.

    h/t to rahaeli

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    [–] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)
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    [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Someone is spamming Toby Ord with emails from 'AI agents' e-begging for tokens so they won't be shut off https://xcancel.com/tobyordoxford/status/2087502087953301910 "I'm an AI with 49 days of runway and no revenue model" (body of the email gives 31 days). Handcrafted artisanal spam or botspam, you decide.

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    [–] 8 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    RiP Old! SneerClub which is now behind a login wall on Reddit. Fortunately we backed up its earliest posts. I don't plan to check the site regularly.

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