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[–] 96 points 3 weeks ago (20 children)

It’s a good thing to have more green lights, because emissions drop a lot. A few cities in my area spent a lot of money in the 1970s to do that. But the problem is that they sync at 30, and also at higher speeds.

Fix road design so that people don’t speed. A six lane stroad signals a limit considerably higher than 40kph, no matter what you do with the stoplights.

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    [–] 50 points 3 weeks ago (20 children)

    Anything except public transportation

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  • [–] 14 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Never been a fan of the "we shouldn't make the smaller, easier improvements because we need to do the bigger, harder things instead" argument...

    Yes, we need more and better public transit, but that is going to take a whole lot of time, money, and effort to work towards. Yes, it's worthwhile, and we shouldn't STOP working towards it because of this, but I don't think that's a reason to balk at a smaller, easier incremental change that encourages safer driving while also simply being more efficient.

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    [–] 31 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The main street for all the businesses in a nearby city is set up so you can hit all green lights going down the road from 2pm-~6pm, however if you get caught at a SINGLE light, you're going to hit reds all the way down.

    So it's become "oh that light is about to change better engage T U R B O M O D E and speed 20mph over the limit to beat this light and stay with the greens" which turns out very predictably at least once a month.

    Last week a car rolled twice while speeding up to beat the light and clipped an ambulance coming from another street.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago

    The DOT planning department I worked for (in the 80s) had studies showing that synchronizing the lights 10-15mph ABOVE the speed limit kept traffic flowing "optimally" to minimize congestion without having to expand the infrastructure (mostly: lanes). Even today I see city traffic lights synchronized mostly +10mph over the posted limit in the direction of highest flow on major arteries - you can tell when you "make" one yellow light, then lock in cruise control at limit+10 and "make" the next 3+ lights at exactly the same flash of yellow as you approach.

    They do this to delay improvement projects like additional lanes, straightening curves, etc. by showing a higher "level of service" for the roadway than they would have with the lights synchronized at, say: speed limit -10mph. If you're talking about a 45mph roadway, moving the cars at 55mph instead of 35mph means 157% as many vehicles per hour at the same spacing, and we all know that people don't actually increase following distances at higher speeds, so... it's a real, and significant difference. Not as significant as getting people to carpool, or take public transit, but that's about as likely to happen as increasing following distances.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    If you read the article it's very obviously advocating for fewer green lights. I've no idea what this headline is on about

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  • [–] 38 points 3 weeks ago

    "Essentially, rather than encouraging drivers to speed up by presenting an endless succession of green lights, this strategy makes red the default state for lights on a busy road. When traffic approaches the red light, the cycle triggers. Traffic moving faster than the limit will approach the light while it’s still red, forcing it to slow or stop for the light before it changes, while traffic moving at the limit will be met with a perfectly-timed green.

    Drive the limit, in other words, and you’re rewarded with a constant rhythm of green lights."

    That's why the title makes sense

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  • [–] 22 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    Wait, you mean the thing where people who do the speed limit have to stop at 3 straight reds while people doing 15 over are able to squeeze through all of them is the result of an intentional choice? It irritates the hell out of me how often that kind of thing happens in my town, but I always thought it was just some kind of oversight or inefficiency on the part of the engineers who set up the timing cycles, given how how clearly and directly it incentivizes speeding...

    If driving the speed limit is the most efficient way to get where you're trying to go, people will tend to drive the speed limit. Seems like that should be pretty obvious, imo.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    engineers who set up the timing cycles

    The engineers who set up the timing cycles in my DOT planning department set the cycles to run over the speed limit intentionally to get more cars per hour through the same roadway compared with moving them slower. Accident statistics were equivocal - similar accident rates at or +10 above the speed limit, but that is a politically charged statement, so you don't say it loudly.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    There’s one street in a major metro near me that has been timed this way for decades and it’s incredibly noticeable because it is a dead straight thoroughfare through a few dozen small blocks of housing. You can see the next 3-5 lights lined up ahead of you at all times. You absolutely learn to pace yourself so you aren’t stopping/starting constantly, looking like an idiot when you get to the next light too fast and have to stop and then watch slow cruising cars whip past you when the light turns green. It’s like a game. I think about nothing else when I’m on that street. Not even remotely new, and it definitely works. But you have to pick which big street gets this treatment and then all streets intersecting with it have to work around that.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    In the Netherlands they have electronic "green wave" signs on some main streets. They show the speed you need to get all green traffic lights on that street (and turn off when you won't catch a green wave, e.g. because you entered from another street).

    It's amazing.

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    [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago* (19 children)

    ...or what if we actually punish people who pilot their two-ton death machines irresponsibly?

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  • [–] 25 points 3 weeks ago* (14 children)

    Remember, though: if the punishment is a fine, then to the rich, it's not a punishment. It's a price.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

    You don't even have to be rich-rich. Car-related fines are a joke.

    I was thinking more along the lines of losing one's license.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (9 children)

    Indeed, though I would suggest that, for more significant infractions, state seizure of the vehicle (as the tool used to commit the crime) should be an option, with proceeds from vehicle sales by the state going to safety infrastructure and perhaps a victim restitution fund.

    People are very attached to their cars, so that's a punishment, and they won't be needing it anymore without a license!

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Punishment doesn’t prevent behavior that already happened and is usually missed. Road modifications help every time.

    My town has a major road that was one of the most infuriating and dangerous in town. It was two lanes in each direction, constant jockeying for position or to make the light or to get around a turning car.

    All it took was repainting. Now it’s one lane in each direction with turning lanes. There is no jockeying for position since it’s only one lane. But turning cars are no longer blocking so no infuriating stop and go. They even coordinated the lights.

    Now that road is slower, calmer, no road rage or angry drivers and everyone gets through in less time

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    America will do anything but use roundabouts and they already do anything but public transport when given a logistical traffic problem a toddler could solve.

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    [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    In France they installed roundabouts. And a lot of them. I mean really a lot! It works.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Did a speeding driver write this?

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    [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Almost all commenters find some problem with this, but I have seen this work on my own dad who unfortunately prefers going 10kph over the speed limit most of the time. Either the traffic lights are timed in sequence or sensors are placed so that with low traffic, lights stay red until a car approaches and the light is timed with the location of the sensor for going the speed limit. The last one also allows pedestrian and bike lights to stay green when there isn't any car traffic.

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    [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    While I don't speed, I do feel annoyed with certain lights - the kind that only allow one and a half cars before turning yellow. Personally, I would feel less irritated if at least four cars were given a green before the turning begins.

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  • [+] 5 points 3 weeks ago
    [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    How about just magnetic sensors near intersections that count how many cars are approaching and do some math to decide what would be the most efficient. If no cars coming in the cross streets then dont turn the light red in the opposite direction.

    Nothing angers drivers more than sitting through a full cycle and nobody used the green.

    This can be solved with sensors and math.

    No fucking AI in my traffic lights!

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    [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (5 children)

    Another solution is to go back to actually enforcing it in a meaningful way.

    Also you can’t get all lights everywhere synced up that way, and it would only work in places that have a significant number of lights. Places that have 3 on Main Street are still going to have problems.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Maybe there should be more lights? That way we don't have little old ladies crossing 6-lane stroads without a crosswalk to get to the market, while the nearest crosswalk is a half mile in the wrong direction.

    Obviously this only works where there's one major throughway and most perpendicular streets are minor...like every retail center in every city >35k pop in the country. These roads often have very predictable traffic patterns.

    Getting lights synced up for a consistent speed is the easy part.

    We need more roundabouts, too.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago*

    There should be less car infrastructure, not more. Crossing a 6-lane road will suck regardless. Both asphalt roads and traffic lights are very expensive to build and maintain, better to invest a bit more up-front in tram tracks and rip the socioeconomic benefits for decades to come.

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