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Anon tries being social (europe.pub)
submitted 2 days ago by [M] to c/greentext@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 126 points 2 days ago (33 children)

I swear we could de-radicalize young men if this was talked about more. Just say hi to people

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  • [–] 42 points 2 days ago (10 children)

    One of the biggest problems is that, outside of early school, there's no real way to practice social interactions in a safe setting. The only real option is jumping straight in. If you're already slightly socially stunted, it can be very easy to mess it up. It only takes a couple of negative reactions to put someone off for a long time.

    I almost fell into the same hole when I was younger. Thankfully I realised what was likely happening and worked on it. I'm still not good at cold approach social interactions, but I can at least now do it without screwing up catastrophically.

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  • [–] -2 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    And when you're in early school the only "people" you have to socialize with are psychopathic children whose only joy in life is tortuting the ones they deem less normal.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago

    My experience with young children is that they can be incredibly welcoming, and accepting. Only a few tend to be like you claim. They generally want to be friendly and be liked.

    Unfortunately, they are also still developing and learning social skills. They often can't tell different and guarded from hostile. They will often reflect back how they feel they are treated. This becomes a vicious cycle.

    It's about 8-9 that things like clicks can form. Social skills explode in complexity. This is where most aspies begin to fall behind. It can be overcome with training and/or practice, but that gets harder the further behind they fall. By the time it's obvious, catching up is HARD.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    there's no real way to practice social interactions in a safe setting

    There are small talk opportunities if you know where to look.

    Dog parks are my favorite. Bring your dog, make small talk with the other owners, get to know some of them. It's a low stakes environment that doesn't cost any money, allows you to exit at any time, guarantees at least one shared interest or commonality with people who live near you. You don't even have to talk to people the first few times you go, and can build up comfort/familiarity in the specific place before you take the next step of striking up a conversation with another regular you see a lot.

    Another option is where unrelated parties might mingle in shared space: communal tables or bar seating at coffee shops or bars or parks or even restaurants. These fleeting interactions might help practice the skills of small talk, enough to where it's easy to have conversations with strangers.

    And sometimes you can outsource the actual cold approach to the extrovert strangers you might encounter, by giving them something to talk about. A baseball cap with your university, a T-shirt with your favorite band from a tour you saw live, a tattoo of something fun, other items of clothing or accessories that might attract positive attention. Sometimes people will say something about it, and then you can talk about a shared interest or background at that point.

    Lines and waiting rooms are also sometimes good places to pass the time with conversations. It's a little harder now than 20 years ago, with the rise of smartphones, but it's still a place where people might be bored and appreciate a little conversation to mix things up.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (5 children)

    That's all dependent on where you live. Maybe where you live that's socially acceptable?

    Where I live that's not socially acceptable. It's considered rude and offensive to approach strangers in public spaces unless you have a prior social connection. Even the dog park is like that here.

    The only place where it would be acceptable is at these socialization events, and those are often highly structured, like those events where you have to ask people questions on index cards in a weird attempt to force intimacy. 'skip the small talk' type of shit.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I fear for my kiddos because of this.

    It's now feeling offensive to approach people in public for any reason. As a full grown adult who is married, I feel awkward approaching someone at like a library reading a book I've read - they don't want the interruption, they aren't here to meet people; I get that. I'm just wanting to share my experiences and maybe make a friend.

    Trying to find a partner is way harder.

    I go out of my way to be gregarious in public spaces because I don't want the normal to be people trapped in their bubbles and never interacting with the rest of the world. I've found that people sometimes light up when they are talked to, and that keeps me doing it.

    I'm an introvert and it's hard. You can do it too! Make small talk.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 hours ago

    No. I'm much happier not having to deal with other people's misery and pettiness. I used to be more social but I gave up because I was sick of having to listen to other people's relentless negativity about their lives, or towards other people's lives. I don't want to hear people complain about their partners, their kids, their family/friends or their job, and how if only they were rich and single life would be perfect.

    Further, where I live people basically just want to talk about how Trump Is Evil and They Are So Poor. Despite the objective reality they personally not impacted by Trump in any way and are among the richest people in the country. I'm not interested in indulging their bizarre delusions. And if you disagree on either of these ideas, you are Evil to them. I specifically quit a lot of things I used to do because this is all anyone wanted to talk anymore. And yeah they do light up when you let them run their mouths about their victimhood. Just like the majority of people on lemmy threats endlessly commenting about how oppressed they are despite their real situation being one of liberty and free choice in which they actively choose to cos-play as victims because it means nothing is their fault and lets dwell in their misery rather than take any personal accountability for themselves and their lives.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I live in the United States. This is true of urban dog parks I've lived near in the East Coast, the West Coast, Texas, and the Midwest. I didn't have a dog when I lived in rural or small town America, so I don't have direct experience with that, but my impression of stranger openness in rural areas wasn't that different.

    For communal spaces, striking up conversations with people near you is also pretty natural. Sitting next to someone at a bar or counter, especially in hotels and airports, is an easy way to talk to someone to pass a little bit of time, and then just disappear back into anonymity whenever you feel like it. The training wheels version is talking to your bartender, and then leaving to talking to other people who are talking to the bartender.

    At this point I also have kids, so anywhere there are other parents is also an easy way to talk to strangers. Parks and playgrounds. School and extracurriculars and summer camps and stuff like that have plenty of opportunities to run into semi regular faces that become familiar.

    I also know several of my neighbors' names (and basically all of their dogs' names). When I lived in apartment buildings I tended to get to know a few other people who lived in the building, who I'd regularly see in the elevators or lobby or mail room or common areas/amenities.

    Probably the most important skill is being able to say something as part of a fleeting moment. Even using the description of "approaching strangers" sounds far more intentional than what I'm talking about, rather than just saying something to someone who is already physically close enough to hear.

    And no, nowhere I've lived or regularly worked in the US (around 10 cities and 7 states) would it be considered rude to say to a stranger "ooh, I like your shirt." People like to be complimented, especially on their choices. Same with "can I say hi to your dog?" or "hey where did you buy that coffee, is it anywhere near here?" It's easiest when not every interaction is expected to escalate, and fostering a particular openness is how extroverts meet others, and occasionally step up to the next level (turning a one-off question to a stop-and-chat, having a good enough small talk that you exchange contact information, grabbing a meal or drink together, doing another activity together, etc.). I get that it's harder for people who don't already do all these things to start, but I'm asking people to look for small ways to start, if that's what they actually want in life.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    Cool. I live in Boston and anytime I try to be polite to people casually they almost always get angry, even when I'm doing them a favor like picking up something they dropped on the street.

    You call it skills, I call it culture change, because I never had this issue 10 years ago. Folks were way more open minded and friendly a decade ago than they are today. Now I say hi to the person at the bar other than the bartender they glare and just stare harder into their phone. Only person that will chat you up at a bar is the bartender usually.

    Dog park by me is a lot of old folks who just want to talk about how young people are awful. Never met anyone under 60 at the dog parks I've been too. And most dog owners I meet on the street are completely unfriendly unless they are also gray-haired. Though sometimes they will ask me what breed my dog is and I will say 'mixed' and they will scowl... because most folks here have purebred designer dogs.

    Typically I only ever see strangers interacting when I'm traveling and that's the only time they positively interact with me. Like I I get out of town for the weekend and go out to Vermont, folks are a lot friendlier and less hostile. And the local subreddit for this city used to have a post every day about 'why are people so mean and unfriendly here'. so I'm not alone in that experience.

    And my neighbors never talk to me unless they want to bitch at me for a friend/family for 'parking in THEIR spot' or trying to get me to support whatever NIMBY petition they are trying to pass, and if you said you don't support restricting housing development and lower taxes they get extremely angry and rant about how 'people like you are ruining this city'. I also ride a bike and they all drive cars, which often results in weird passive aggressive comments about 'when are you going to grow up'. So, why would I want to interact with those miserable judgemental folks and their weird entitlement issues?

    I used to volunteer a lot and I quit because even in those spaces people were increasing anti-social and downright hostile when you tried to make conversation with them and it's fucking miserable trying to help someone and ask them where they live as a polite small talk and they scowl at you or ask you if you are trying to stalk them rather than being like 'oh i live in x, what you?'

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago*

    What the fuck, I like to think that I lived in places where people hate to talk (northern Europe), and at most people would ignore you.

    Being vocally angry at you for nothing is not them being antisocial, that is them being angry and aggressive without an outlet. Or them being miserable people with nothing but petty drama in their life.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Those all fall under the "jump straight in" category. If you can read the situation well, e.g. who is up for being approached, and who isn't, then they work well for making new friends. Unfortunately, if you don't yet have those basic social reading skills, it's a minefield.

    Incidentally, I'm fully past that set of issues. I used the fact that no one has any idea what's going on at the start of university to practice and build skills.

    I also help out with a nerd related social group. Neurodiversity is the heavy majority there. We often have people come along that are accidental shut-ins and want to meet people. I now make a point when showing them around to both make it clear that everyone there at that time is there to socialise and show stuff off. I also introduce them to a few people to break the ice. Watching people come out of their shell and realise they will be celebrated for their weirdness, not punished for it feels very good to me.

    I've been on the receiving end of social punishment more than enough to call anyone risking it brave.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 days ago (8 children)

    As long as they don't mistake making a new friend with expectations of having a girlfriend. I've had plenty of guy "friendships" which I genuinely thought would last for years, but the moment they noticed I wasn't having sex with them they pulled away to never be heard of. It breaks your heart in a different way.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    This is such a self-destructive act. Being friends with women gives you more chances of a) meeting women, and b) actually knowing how to interact with them when you do.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Speaking from the guy perspective (and not at all to minimize your pain) sometimes pulling away is necessary for managing feelings of rejection and longing; better to pull away than to have a crash out in a year about how her boyfriend isn't you but also still bad. It just sucks all around.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    I've never done this to a friend or had a female friend do this to me, but so many guys seem incapable of dealing with feelings of disappointment without destroying a relationship.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    I pull away because i don't want to deal with other people's endlessly negative expectations of the world and of me/themselves.

    it's exhausting and miserable, and I would rather be alone and happy than socially involved and miserable.

    It's not dating either, it's just socializing in general. It sucks to try and meet up with old friends or make new ones, and all they want to do is complain about how awful the world is and how unfair their lives are, and if you don't agree... they think you are a terrible person.

    I miss the days when you could meet people and the topics were not an endless self-pity party. I can't remember the last time I met a stranger and they didn't immediately launch into a 'woe is me' conversation. The last time I met a person who wasn't like that was 3-4 years ago. and 8 years ago... I would actually meet a lot of folks who weren't like that.

    My other thing that drives me away from socialization... people don't ask me questions or talk to more anymore. They just... lecture me about myself and make really arrogant and stupid assumptions about me. And if I correct them about their wrong assumptions, they get angry and tell me that I am wrong. Another social change I just can't understand, and I notice when I ask people questions they get offended by it like it's rude to ask them basic facts about themselves... and that's how I enjoy interacting with people... so yeah what is the point?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    you realize that the inverse is also true.

    a lot of people are radicalized because they say hi to people and get told off for their basic politeness/decency?

    I'm repeatedly shocked at how hostile people are to me the past few years, in a way they never were previously in my entire life. And well, it's because they have been convinced that even when I pick up the wallet they dropped on the ground to give it back to them, I must be 'attacking' them. because they are indoctrinated that all men are evil nonsense.

    and i imagine if I was younger I'd find these experiences a lot more damaging to my psyche, because I might not have ever known a time when being kind to a stranger was considered a threat, like I did when I was young.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Inevitably there would be some incels who claim that speaking to women like normal human beings is an attempt by the matrix to emasculate men.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to want to de-radicalize young men. They'll say stuff like "Why should we? They deserve to be miserable."

    It kinda misunderstands the nature of radicalization, and how vulnerabilities and exploits manifest. It can even take on a tinge of victim-blaming, retroactively justifying mistreatment based on their reaction to it

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Yeah. And if you get rejected a few times, don't turn that into an entire personality. Laugh at yourself.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Wasn't this one of Elliot Rodger's issues, he just didn't talk to women

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    No, he was mentally ill. He just blamed women, and men, not liking him for the root of his illness, rather than realizing it was his illness that was the problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    brilliant. What was it he called himself? The supreme gentleman? Do people actually look up to him, or is it ironic?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 hours ago*

    he was a folk hero among the insane incels, sort of like the unibomber was, or Luigi is now

    There are always insane people who think violence is the answer to their grievances, who idealizing the 'heroes' who enacted that violence on their behalf.

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