Tommy Siegel | Bluesky

TranscriptA Helpful Guide To Star Wars vs Star Trek

Star Wars

[Image of Han Solo in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the ‘first’ movie, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like ruined farm equipment in space
  • In summary: the past was horrible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it

Star Trek

[Image of Jean Luc Picard in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the first season, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like a cruise ship in space
  • In summary: the future is incredible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it
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[–] 1 point 1 day ago (7 children)

The ending sets up literally nothing for episode IX

wouldn’t you say the same for A New Hope?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    I would, but A New Hope gets the excuse of actually being a standalone movie. A New Hope came into theaters as "Star Wars" and became Episode 4 later. Like I said, The last Jedi probably would've been an okay standalone movie. The problem is that The Last Jedi was never supposed to be a standalone movie.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (5 children)

    I'll accept that. In general, though, I feel like having the time jumps pull a lot of weight is core to the Star Wars movies' identity, so if there's any movie that should leave few threads loose at the end, it would be Star Wars. (Thus, I also feel there was no reason for IX to have been what it was.) I would also argue Kylo Ren being now in control of the New Order in the state of mind that he is (plus his arc with Rey) is a very loose thread with very promising potential. (Plus the ending shot seemed like foreshadowing the fate of the trilogy's end would be decided by entirely new possibilities.)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (4 children)

    You can have time jumps between movies but if the movie is a part of a trilogy it needs to serve the trilogy. Imagine if at the end of two towers Frodo throws the ring into the fire. What would return of the king be about? You couldn't have the return of the king because the story is resolved, the ring is gone. It would have to be a completely new u story and it wouldn't make any sense in the context of the trilogy.

    That's basically what Johnson did. He took the whole story and instead of setting up the final movie to resolve the story he resolved the story on his own and left nothing for the last movie.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (3 children)

    All the New Order lost was the equivalent of two aircraft carriers. (Using the ancient art of calculus, 1+ \int_{TR-8R}^{some other named squadron} fighter dust = 2.) The story absolutely was not resolved. Ren in control of the Order while going insane, whatever’s up with Finn and Rose surviving, how exactly was the rebellion going to continue (they clearly were but what do they do now?), and final scene may as well had marked with big giant circles who shall be the next heroes.

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  • [–] 1 point 18 hours ago (2 children)

    Did we watch the same movie? The Order won and the rebels lost.

    The movie setting up "next heroes" is literally my point. It sets up something new with new characters instead of setting up the conclusion to the trilogy with existing characters. It doesn't set up the next movie with existing characters because their archs got concluded.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 hours ago* (1 child)

    the rebels didn’t lose either; they just lost all of their bases. they’re the rebellion, famously created by george lucas examining viet cong guerrilla tactics.

    with next heroes i was just saying the movie clearly laid out a path for a sequel to reuse threads. i mentioned about five things left untied with existing characters and the next heroes are not any one of them. Rey’s arc was just getting started.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 hours ago

    the rebels didn’t lose either; they just lost all of their bases.

    Huh, guess we have wildly different definitions of losing.

    i mentioned about five things left untied with existing characters and the next heroes are not any one of them.

    Did you? Let's count.

    1. Ren in control of the order while going insane
    2. whatever’s up with Finn and Rose surviving
    3. how exactly was the rebellion going to continue (they clearly were but what do they do now?)
    4. and final scene may as well had marked with big giant circles who shall be the next heroes.

    If we add what you now also added, Rey’s arc was just getting started, we barely get to 5. And I do have points to make here.

    Finn and Rose surviving isn't a continuation of the trilogy, their plot ended with them finding love. What comes after would have to be a new story for them. Saying that's setting up the next movie is like saying Episode 6 set up Episode 7 because "What would happen to Mon Mothma after the Battle of Endor?".

    Same with "How exactly was the rebellion going to continue". That's not setting up the last movie of the trilogy. That might as well be a starting point of a new trilogy.

    Circling out next heroes is the complete opposite of setting up the last movie of the trilogy because it sets up a whole new cast. If anything that's setting up a new trilogy.

    And Rey's arc was just getting started? Rey's entire motivation was to find out who abandoned her on Jakku and why. For the viewer there was the additional question of why she's so strong with the force. Both points got concluded in the Last Jedi with revealing that her parents abandoned her and we don't even know them because when she touches the force all she finds is herself. Her story concluded. What happens next is a new story.

    The only storyline we could entertain is Rens but that alone is not enough to set up the next movie because he's not even the main character.

    So no, it didn't really set anything up in the context of the trilogy.

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