Ukrainian drone teams demolished a brigade of US Army tanks and armored vehicles during a live war game held this year—but the US soldiers were lucky enough to get “respawn” attempts while learning from the experience.

The semiannual military exercise, called Combined Resolve, gave the US military a firsthand taste of how modern drone warfare has evolved on the battlefields of Ukraine. The Ukrainian drone operators participating in the exercise were easily able to spot and destroy US armored vehicles by mimicking the actions of dropping bombs from above or moving close enough to simulate a kamikaze strike, according to US officials and a participant who spoke with The Wall Street Journal.

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[–] 70 points 1 month ago* (19 children)

it's good that the war games happen. you learn a lot from losing.

it should be noted that the U.S. military loses effectively on purpose. ( I'm not saying they purposely lose, they just create situations where they basically have a very high probability of losing. ) for example the F-22 will open it's bay doors so they are easier to spot on radar (and that's just one example). That's just a matter of public record. (and yes i know this battle was about tanks and drones)

But it's always interesting to see the results of the war games.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    you learn a lot from losing.

    What do you really think the Hegseth military is going to learn from this?

    It should be noted that the U.S. military loses effectively on purpose

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Like Trump demanding steam launch systems be retrofitted replacing the new electromagnetic stuff, because he is a toddler that understand nothing.

    But assuming we survive Trump… maybe these lessons will make it under the next administration.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It's been a long time since I read into M02 exercise but IIRC Van Riper only won by using "motorcycle messengers" that traveled at the speed of light. IIRC the game's "DM"s basically ruled against him that their forces were not operating within realistic constraints which is why it was reset and restarted.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Van Riper only won by using “motorcycle messengers” that traveled at the speed of light

    Van Riper used units designated as civilian material/personal to fill a gap in communications, in a war game that substituted certain functions of the combat as turn-based for expediency. They weren't moving at the speed of light. They simply existed in the scenario, were used in a clever manner, and were able to function freely because the attacking US forces ignored them.

    Van Riper used a few other tricks - toggling mobile radar stations so they won't be easy to target by enemy artillery and using speedboats to harry American Navy - which the US leadership considered "cheating".

    But then... 24 years later... all of these tricks (and more) were used by the IRGC to devestating effect.

    Americans learned absolutely nothing.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Is your generation incapable of developing a thought or imagining something?

    You really can't figure out how an institution as large and complex as the US military might have a way to learn things, even when shitheads are in charge?

    Can't imagine how it might be done? Can't think through and solve that one? C'mon. I refuse to believe anyone is that dense.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago

    You really can’t figure out how an institution as large and complex as the US military might have a way to learn things

    It's a matter of thinking of them. You're got to actually employ them, too.

    Is the US actually doing this? Or is institutional memory getting shredded by DOGE, et al?

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    [–] 47 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Y'know, if we (US) were smart and actually supported Ukraine with everything they need, you know they'd bend over backward to give us much of the tech they've developed.

    Thanks, Trump. You've shit the bed on yet another thing here. But this is also Republicans in general. So fuck 'em all.

    Not that I necessarily want the US to be 'the world's policeman' any more, but y'know, we do pride ourselves on our military. Seems we're behind the times now and if shit goes down..... will we have an advantage as we have in the past? Maybe. Maybe not.

    Ugh.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    US has probably already stolen the specs

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    The specs yes, but obviously not the skills. And that is the problem atm, The second best droneoperators are not of the western hemisphere...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Isn't the whole point of these operations to teach those skills?

    The article itself even says that the tank brigade eventually learned better ways to deal with the drones.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    The US doesn't have the the emphasis on drone operations like modern conflict. They still see them as ISR and not force projectors/fires. Hard to learn skills when you don't have the type of device.

    Yes the brigade learned to reduce drones impact. But they couldn't stop them, respond to them, or use them against their enemies.

    Its like fighting an enemy that only they have artillery, you just have to keep getting blown up.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Either way, at least the wargame shows the need for it, so hopefully the military will clamor enough for it to make it happen.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Oh yeah the US steals military specs it's all fine.

    When anyone else does it better get out the itty butty guns

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Teaches me for skipping the title and reading the body first, I missed that these were war games lol. For a second I thought 'wait how have I missed everything that led up to this'

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    hah, gotta love that. Like scrolling reddit and you see something like "How can I kill my baby? I've tried starving, drowning...." and brain kinda half-reads and is like W T F - then you realize it's like /r/TheSims or whatever. hehe

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    That's why russian tanks look like Mad Max props.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I'm kind of surprised no solid point defence platform has emerged from this heavy drone warefare.

    Obviously its not as easy as just slapping a radar onto a turret 50 cal, but you'd think we'd at least have something for drones since they move way slower than air dropped bombs and tank munitions.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I remember reading an article a while back about high powered lasers that could essentially take down drones via direct line of sight, but haven't heard much more since then. I guess they're difficult to target from the ground if they're flying at very low altitude.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I've read about shotguns rigged to a makeshift CIWS solution having good results. It might just be the precursor to something proper.

    To another reply in this thread: The problem with laser weapons is that they're expensive and fragile. I'd be interested in tech breakthroughs on this front too...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Is there any situation in which tanks win over drones?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Tanks have always been best in combined arms situations where they have close air support and infantry support.

    Even regular infantry can be devastating to tanks in certain situations depending on the terrain and tactics used.

    I think the future of unit warfare will likely be some hybrid model where the close air support role is offloaded to drones that advance and maneuver along with ground units. Maybe sufficiently advanced militaries will also incorporate drone tank-like ground vehicles and scout vehicles.

    All the worlds big military players are watching what's happening in Ukraine and taking notes.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    All those things are things Ukraine has tried or is trying. Unmanner vehicles are mainly used for frontline logistics, but some with machine guns have held positions that infantry couldn't. Drones appear to be useful in pretty much any situation, but infantry is still needed for taking/keeping control of terrain. Tanks are well suites for assaults, even with drones buzzing arround, but again with the support of infantry and all those other things you mentioned. It seems that war had changed quite a bit, but everything still revolves around infantry.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Really depends on the tanks and drones in question, the soldiers involved, the commanders running the operation, the actual objectives of the mission, yada yada.

    Just straight off the bat, drones aren't great at securing supply lines or moving large volumes of cargo long distances.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Respawn attempts... Don't learn anything from those.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    gotta be honest, until the last word of the title i was kinda hopeful.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ever since the air force took a technology-first approach, they've developed capabilities where they can put an explosive device with a few feet of where they want it to be from 40k feet up.

    That drones could wipe out or disable tanks is not at all a surprise.

    I really have no idea how more "bad people" aren't just vaporized from orbit at this point.

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