2 week late necro post but:

(images you can hear, lol)

Honestly, I find the gameplay of older JRPGs generally insufferable as well.

Give me Chrono Trigger or at least Golden Sun, where we have a bit more complex and interesting actual game mechanics, as well as very very good plot lines, characters, soundtracks, etc.

But uh yeah, sounds like you are probably about 10 years older than me? And/or just ... don't really play too many games?

I dunno, thats the 'vibe' I'm getting, but hey I also think Disco is phenomenal.

I dunno uh, ever seen or played Windwaker?

That game was pretty controversial when it came out, for shifting Zelda into a very cartoony art style...

... but now its generally remembered as a very unique and basically timeless art style, that a lot of people sort of use as a foundation for their own styles, when trying to make a game.

Ah ok.

So, I don't think that it 'centers the male gaze'.

I barely even know what that actually means, these days.

I'm not generally worried by the idea of trying to convey people who are attractive, in their own right, when viewed by men or women or anything else.

You can do that in a bad way via characterization or plot or whatever, but I'm just talking about the art style of the drawing.

I do find a lot of the relationship archetypes/dynamics in a lot of anime problematic, but I'm again trying to just talk about the art style.

I'm also not saying that like, "all anime presents bad socialization examples and standards."

Sure, some kinda do, some really do, but there's tons of great anime that doesn't, that doesn't showcase that, or if it does, that character is bsd because they do that, or its a flaw, where it is good when they overcome it.

It is just a fact of human beings that we basically all judge each other as beautiful or not, to some extent, so... it would be ridiculous to just completely eliminate that from shows.

What I do think this style does, for both boys and girls, though the effect is usually much worse on girls...

Is that it fundamentally promotes unrealistic beauty / self-image standards, if you don't actually have a parent explaining some of this kind of stuff to them.

If you had an actual human being, approaching any of the body forms in OP image, well you are basically descibing an anorexic person.

Well ok, other than what is here labelled 'full figured', which, if you just replaced the head with a human proportioned head, would be probably what I'd call a skinny or skinnier person, but probably not so skinny that its like, de facto medically concerning.

But this is still bad, because now, if you are in reality skinny, you may think you are basically chubby.

Its exactly the same critique I'd have of older Barbie dolls.

Also, real people have noses, anime characters basically do not.

You should not be ashamed to have a nose.

I really do think that a lot of more vulnerable people get some kind of body dysmorphia complex from being overly immersed in this, if they don't have a parent who like, checks in on them from time to time, actually explains that some elements of a characters style are reasonable to try and emulate, others are very unrealistic and unreasonable to try and emulate.

Girls compete so, so much amongst themselves over who is the prettiest, most desirable, and if you have unrealistic standards for that, it can create self image problems, especially in households that already are not doing a great job of raising their kids.

There, that's the angle by which I find this style 'fundamentally problematic'.

Not really even a feminist, social dynamics angle, more of just a healthy young mind / child development angle.

Well, I would say this does not work in reverse (converse?).

Show has a fairly standard style?

Total crapshoot, could be great in many ways other than style, could be awful, could be mid.

If all A are also B...

That is not the same as 'all Not A are also Not B.'

So, if you see a unique style (A), decent chance it is also good in other ways (B).

But, if you don't see A... that just tells you nothing, really, about B.

It does not mean that B is less likely to be present, simply because A is not present.