Cali independence confirmed
this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
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Can they even do this? What leverage does CA have here? Presumably any goods imported into the state would be subject to US tariffs because those are imposed at the Federal level, so it's not like Newsom can offer to exempt other countries imports from tariffs if they're bound for California.
Well, OK, in one sense he could, but he'd literally have to direct officials in California to defy US federal law, and possibly get into direct conflict with Federal agents operating in the state, right?
Assuming he's not going to do that, how does this play work? What does he offer in return for other countries exempting CA from their counter tariffs?
Also, how is this not a stepping stone towards an independent California? (I strongly suspect the answer to that last question is "it is, end of answer")
What leverage does California have?
Half of all fruits and vegetables grown in the country come from California. Something like 99% of all almonds are grown here, too.
We are the land of fruits and nuts. 🤪
I'd be for it. Then we could yell STATES RAIGHTS as we do it.
Off the top of my head,
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Yes, this is an explicit step away from the authority of the federal government
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It is FAR from California's first step (recognizing gay marriage; sanctuary state; legal weed; etc)
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It is not a complete defiance of federal law per se. I suspect that the way California is going to try to negotiate will be by offering breaks on its own state and local taxes. California has a decent slew of state level taxes on many things. The state may be willing to reduce its own state taxes to offset the federal taxes as part of a separate deal with foreign nations.
Well they may not have to defy federal law. Could be a good faith deal. Where if California imports something the tariffs are still paid by the ordering companies, but California gives some kind of kick back or assurance that they will remain a better trading partner for a lesser retaliatory tariff. If say China says no tariffs on California, it would make many companies flock to doing all business that ships to China go through California. Making their industry possibly not hurt as bad, or even thrive.
If states start to see they are hurting much more than California, more states may flock to the ideals that are proping up said trade.
It's all very big IF's
Like the law fucking matters now in the era of Trump.
Why does it matter? Trump ignores the constitution regularly.
Yeah the customs at California ports is run by the federal agency
Refusing to levy the federal tariff and daring Trump to do something about it as the only way this could work I could think of too. That could go pear shaped very fast
A chilling look into what could be the first real steps towards the Balkanization of the United States. It's sad that it's gotten to this point, but realistically I don't see another path forward. It may be unconstitutional, but unfortunatly that founding document has lost its legitimately as the current administration wipes it's ass with it on a daily basis.
America's over. Time to split and let the trump States suffer. It's all we can do
I think the fact that you have such a polarized society where states are "red" or "blue" and have such different policies and views on things make it difficult to function as 1 country. Of course this has always been the case to a certain extent but nowadays it feels a lot more rabid then before. Knowing how much democrats like being pushovers nothing will probably happen (for the good of the country or some bullshit) but I do hope that more and more of these protest style things keep happening and that Trumps authority keeps withering away.
I think we're seeing the fundamental effects of what happens when you have such a polarizing president destroy the fabric of what a united country was to have been. At least the EU does not have this problem as much because there's clusters of other countries with their own government. The United States would systematically break if one or more states secedes. But then again, no lone state could function as their own country. Unless you're California or Texas.
Texas couldn't function as it's own country lol.
They had a cold snap and it damn near destroyed their electric grid. None of the red states could stand on their own. They don't have the funds to keep infrastructure running and have to siphon them off from the blue states.
Part of the reason Texas hasn't seceded is because they know they couldn't pull it off on their own. Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, and Louisiana know if any of them decided to throw their lot in with Texas, they'd all end up being Texas's vassal states.
Last I checked, Texas was literally the only red state that actually paid more into the federal government than it took out. The cold snap was just the usual idiocy, but it's not like it couldn't be handled, the state just stopped caring about weather proofing infrastructure.
And with the amount of natural resources and basically year round agriculture that happens in Texas, I have no doubt it could be self sufficient to some definition. I almost wish they would secede and tank the current electoral landscape. As long as I can move out first.
North Korea functions as a country. Its citizens aren't very happy or healthy, but it functions.
North Korea is a border fort bot a real country
The people of north korea also are not armed to the teeth
I mean, it could be a shitty disfunctional country with a very poor QoL, but still an independent country.
Small states will likely form coalitions with neighbouring states with whom they share culture and values. Texas, California, Florida, and New York might be independent, with nearby coilitions of states falling into their spheres of influence, or they may be the dominant power in a coalition of states.
It would be interesting to see what becomes of the states in the Midwest and the Great Basin. None of them have the economic power to stand on their own, and they will be reliant on having good relations with States that have ports.
Border disputes and tensions will be widespread, and the state-lines we know today will likely be completely redrawn. It's likely too that many States will be facing their own internal succession movements from regions on the other end of the culture wars. Not to mention foreign powers pursuing their interests in the remains of the United States. The only certainty in this hypothetical future is that is will be a big, bloody, mess.
Let Texas and Florida play nanny to the red states? Until Florida is underwater anyway.
That'll be a fun decade
It's been pretty fragmented since the whole "states rights" movement.
If WA OR CA governors wanted to start forming a bloc to negotiate deals internationally that would be interesting.
The California Republic should just secede already.
Well they voted to do a study to determine if they should. I think its good for them to do it over the period of years, not months.
I agree since the Colorado is being bled dry
How would this even work?
Products coming into California would be subject to Trump's tariffs. California has no control over that. Is California expecting other countries to simply ignore that and give California a pass because they're besties or something? That would be a completely lopsided and unfair trade deal for those countries. And the more states that sign on to this "California deal" where incoming goods are still subject to Trump tariffs but products coming from those states are somehow exempt from the retaliatory tariffs would only serve to make the deal even more lopsided against those countries.
If I were the leader of any of these countries, I'd be telling Newsom to go pound sand and to put the pressure on their own elected leader to bring an end to this bullshit, and until then, the retaliatory tariffs stay.
Kick out the feds from the port
State taxes/subsidies.
Honestly I hope Newsom takes this fight and loses, even though I applaud the effort. It's an unconstitutional overreach for a state to step into international trade and relations. But having the fight over it will both remind the rabid right why we have a federal government, and what they could lose if they keep going down this path.