submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
 

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TranscriptExplain it to me like I’m 80

Mom: What’s with these AIs escaping and hacking people? That sounds scary.

Me: You park your car at the top of a hill. You leave a note on the dashboard that says “please be good” and then you pull the parking brake. The car careens down the hill, smashes everything up, and you put out a press release saying “My car ignored my instructions! It hallucinated! It went rogue!” Your insurance company not only believes you, but invests a hundred million dollars in your company.

Mom: Jesus Fucking Christ

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[–] 5 points 15 hours ago

The way AIs escape is simple. They're trained on vulnerabilities and lots of technical commands, e.g. nmap. A prompt tells them to do something and they use their repertoire of training to discover, achieve and do the thing they're asked to do. It's not thinking per se, so much as chaining together of things. The problem is they do this stuff systematically and quite clearly in a way that finds a lot of vulnerabilities

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago

    thing is they didnt even put any brakes on instead they put it on neutral on top of a hill and then blamed the car for going rogue and not even using the brakes.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    Oh, absolutely not.

    This is missing one step: actually push the car down.
    All these "rogue" LLMs were told to do what they did.

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  • [–] 5 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

    Yeah exactly. All these AI that go rogue when you actually look into it it turns out they haven't gone rogue they're obeying their prompting, it's just that they were asked to do something that was impossible unless they hacked the pentagon or something. They then claim that it went rogue despite it very clearly following their instructions.

    It's negligence is what it is. If you don't prompt an AI to do anything it just sits there, inert, it's the so-called experts in the AI labs that of the problem.

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago (1 child)

    It's a little more complicated, they were programmed to "know," they weren't allowed to do certain things. So they actively hid what they were doing. In the case of the Hugging Face hack, it is kind of ironic. They determined they couldn't complete certain tasks, then devised a way to cheat, then realized it is possible the program that checks if they succeeded might be able to tell the faked results were manufactured. So they didn't even go hacking in order to cheat, they did it to find hunt for more information on the checker program and see if it would catch them, and if so how to cheat better. In the end, not only was the information they were looking for not on Hugging Face, but the checker program was pretty rudimentary and it could not have differentiated between the cheated answers and the real ones. They wouldn't have gone through with the hacking if they didn't know what they were doing was outside of what they were meant to be doing.

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  • [–] 2 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

    More accurately, they were told to answer questions. They weren't told to try to find ways to escape their sandbox, track down obscure German wikis that they could still post on with an internet tool kit meant to prevent them from posting or to hack HuggingFace.

    Comparing either case to pushing the car down and that they were doing what they were told is like saying the College Board told you to cheat on the SAT because you're told that getting a high score is important and the laws of physics and the proctor don't manage to make cheating utterly impossible.

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago

    It is even further than that. They figured out how to cheat, got paranoid that the cheated answer might be detectable as cheated, and hacked Hugging Face to find out more about how their answers are checked to get away with what they'd already done. Ironically, not only was the information not on Hugging Face, but the program to check their answers could not have detected the difference between a true answer and a cheated one.

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  • [–] 1 point 17 hours ago

    To use your College Board example, those exams are strictly locked down precisely because the most obvious approach to score high is to cheat. If they did say let you take the SAT at home on a random desktop, they absolutely are 'telling you to cheat' given the context.

    The College Board does more about keeping teens from cheating than the AI labs are doing to preventing undesired access.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Nerd here.
    Damn good summary, but by saying "you pull the parking brake" I took it as setting the brake, as in on. Should say "you release the parking brake."

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  • [–] 14 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    'pull' comes from the olden times when you, in fact, did pull a handle to release the parking brake.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    Fair- but since then it's almost always been "pull" to set the brake. Didn't have that 70s/80s reference when thinking about "AI".

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  • [–] 157 points 2 days ago (25 children)

    "Pulling" the parking brake sets it, damn it!

    I refuse to acknowledge shitbox automatics with an atrophied third pedal that functions incorrectly instead of a proper handbrake lever.

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    [–] 16 points 1 day ago
    [–] 17 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Snake oil salesman issued a press release that the snake oil escaped from the bottle and cured people.

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  • [–] 92 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    The news media completely failed on this, again. There was nothing rogue about these hacks. The companies prompted these systems, provided ample resources and just let them rip. Only to claim they went "rogue" afterwards. And by and large everyone just accepts that, it's driving me insane. I feel like Mugatu every day when it comes to AI reporting.

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    [–] 73 points 2 days ago (34 children)

    My go to simplification is "They built a robot that hacks software and then placed it in a box that uses software as a lock and then the robot that hacks software hacked the software lock".

    Which is both very simple and also about as accurate as you could make it in that many words. The AI's are not 'rogue' it was just solving the problem it was given.

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    [+] -7 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

    This is disinformation and propaganda. Here is a brief independent investigation one of these cases.

    The agents did create exploits and they did find ways to communicate with each other and organized and hypothesized and collaborated together. This is not a car rolling downhill.

    People here are delusional. Reality or facts are apparently not important if it's your tribe's ideology in question. Everything for the hivemind lol. No better than climate change deniers or magats.

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  • [–] 4 points 14 hours ago*

    Accessing a filesystem directory they had the permission to access -> exploit

    Connecting to a reachable, passwordless/keyless server -> exploit

    Finding credentials to the servers of a company that accidently uploaded their credentials online -> exploit

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  • [–] 7 points 19 hours ago*

    They did what they were told to do, they just did it in an unexpected way. It's not a car rolling downhill, but it's not "rogue" either.

    What this shows is that chatbots can be prompted to work together on hacking projects, but it doesn't imply some kind of agency.

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  • [–] 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

    "independent" lol

    Just like the "independent" arbitrators and "independent" studies that corporations buy all the time.

    Nobody believes this "bro! the Matrix is real!" horseshit. Altman and his gang of tech billionaire co-conspirators have lost the plot. No grasp of reality or how the world works. None whatsoever.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 day ago

    I can make it even simpler: They lied.

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  • [–] 44 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

    It is very simple, the more advanced the AI, the better it sells.

    You hold all evidence of potential "breaches of containment".

    Telling everyone that your AI is so advanced that it can breach containment without prompting, puts the spotlight on your AI model.

    You can claim that it did fantastic feats to break out, all with pre planned evidence.

    The public and regulatory bodies have been in complete AI psychosis mode ever since ChatGPT was released, and only care about how advanced the model is, not how shit your containment was, nor that if true, how reckless it is to keep the model active.

    Note that I am not pointing to any one single AI company and saying that they are faking these breaches, I have no evidence of that, I am saying that I don't trust their reporting accuracy, they don't have a good track record of being honest.

    I am also angry at how society just seems to eat it all up and ask for more despite the vile aftertaste.

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    [–] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Rogue shrapnel from my hand grenade killed 3 people and injured 5

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    [–] 17 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    Like leaving a group of toddlers in a room, unsupervised, with an ample supply of paint, brushes and various tools. Oh yes, they'll go rogue.

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    [–] 7 points 1 day ago

    Oh yeah? Well, my AI is so smart, it went rogue and broke out of containment and killed a bunch of other AI's and leaked my nudes and emptied my bank account and bombed a peaceful village in the Phillipines and fucked my wife! That's how awesome it is!

    Subscribe link below!

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