If yes, how's it going? What do you like about it? What don't you like? What challenges are you encountering? How are you approaching it?

I ask because my partner and i both decided last year we would start doing a little language learning in our spare time, and it's been quite nice to have that "back to school" feeling again after so many years.

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[–] 8 points 3 days ago

I'm learning Mandarin right now, and currently I'm at HSK3. I can read and write fine, but my listening and speaking needs more polishing.

Learning Mandarin is way easier than learning English for me. Mandarin gramer is surprisingly similar to my native tongue compared to English, which has completely different grammar and pronunciation logic. And learning hanzi is somehow easier than learning pinyin for me.

Since Mandarin is a word-based language unlike English, which is a letter-based language, I have to study it frequently to not forget the words.

I memorize sentences instead of words. That way, I can remember a word faster and I have something to say in a conversation.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    i'm hopping between esperanto, japanese and chinese, but after a while i'm kinda stalled because i need to focus in other things. i'm kinda noob in all three, but i can distinguish some kanjis (to feel as an illustrated weeb) and han characters, mi estas lerni esperanto kaj tio

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago

    I am huge into linguistics and language learning. My main language is French, I'm becoming quite proficient in it after about 4 years of real focused study, trying to break into the CEFR C levels. I am also learning Mandarin and German; I'm almost to HSK2, and I haven't tested my German CEFR but my partner speaks it so I'm making faster progress with that.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago

    Yes, I'm learning Arabic (MSA)! I'm Arab but never picked up the language before. The basics are pretty straightforward but we're (my tutor and I) getting to some of the more technical grammar (e.g. verb forms and how they modify meaning, idafah) and that's much more difficult. Hopefully I can reach a level of fluency where I can communicate with my extended family solely in Arabic (even if I'll sound like a news reporter) as well as travel and read 1001 nights.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (5 children)

    I'm thinking of learning French this winter. Gross, I know, but it's the easiest for a native english speaker and I already took it up until grade 9, and it can open doors for work here. And of course there are state resources since it's an official language here.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    I took French in school too, but i would need to expand my vocabulary a bit more before i could call myself even semi-fluent.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    Same, I'm familiar enough with latin that it really helps (tho not fluent or anything) but my vocabulary is pretty small, and almost all of my grammar has faded away (if I even learned it at all; I got a pity pass the last class I took). My kitten's name is a french word and I almost misspelled it until my friend reminded me that having an X would make it a plural 💀.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    95% of language learning is just finding a way to learn 12,000 words without wanting to die.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    It's interesting though because if you ask, you know, a five year old, they're not going to tell you any such thing. With the exception of cases where a kid is noticeably behind or nonverbal, something about the way young kids learn language appears to make it way easier compared to what adults are often doing in order to adopt a second or third language.

    It's something I want to research and understand better, but one concept I recall exploring (offhand, am unsure how much this is backed by research in the specifics) is to do with strength of associations. Like if we consider a little baby learning the word "mama" (or its various counterparts in different languages), they aren't being handed flashcards and trying to memorize "mama" like it's a textbook word that has no relevance to them until they decide to apply it in real life. They are learning to associate "mama" with all kinds of sensory information, physical needs, emotional needs, memories of events (hopefully mostly fond ones), and so on.

    So I suspect where some of the friction lies is in adults trying to learn language words like they are learning historical facts; as distant snippets of information that are supposed to be memorized exactly as they are, so that they can be produced on request to prove their knowledge for a test. Whereas if they are learning them more in association the language's culture, with interaction in that culture, or more generally, learning it in strong association with things like sensory information and others listed above, then it will feel like it's being learned more naturally. But the question remains of how to do this in a world that is increasingly abstracted out to digital, with lots of people who are interested in learning additional languages but have no organic avenue to immersion.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Young children speak a miniaturized and simplified version of language, which has far fewer words, much simpler grammar, and often lacks idiomatic structuring. They typically learn around 7 new words per day, which is far different than a studying adult, who can learn up to 50 a day.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    Would like to see the literature on this cause 7 vs up to 50 sounds hard to measure, especially across time. Like what counts as "learn" in the first place? Can recall it without prompting? Can use it in a sentence when prompted to do so? Organically uses it in a sentence without being prompted to?

    I mean, there's this thing that comes up often in language learning practices "spaced repetition", but why would that be needed if you can straightforwardly learn up to 50 words in a day.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago

    Use Anki! It's yet another cue card app but it does varied spaced repetition so it codifies educational best practices built in. Sorry for sounding like an ad read but I swear by it lol

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    french, portuguese and japanese. I'm at like a B1 level in portuguese and around A1-A2 in the other two. My progress has been super slow but I'm glad to be learning.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Surprising amount of people learning German here, when you consider the limited scope. I know the basics but could never be bothered to justify the effort. I feel the sense that mastering German would take as much effort as perfecting Italian, Portugese, French, and probably even Esperanto on top. Not to mention it's significantly less applicable and practical than most. If you live in a German country I could see the use, but man it's so difficult otherwise.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    It's not that difficult (Russian for example is significantly harder imo), but yeah there is limited use. I wouldn't recommend learning it unless you have a good reason for doing so. Although interestingly, it enables you to read Marx in the original language he wrote in.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    I guess it depends on what your linguistic background is. Probably if you are already fluent in a Germanic language like Norwegian or Dutch or whatever it might be less difficult, but if you come from speaking a Romance language or even something not European at all, It's a lot to wrap your head around.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    Karl Marx has caused the proletariat to suffer from three sources of pain:

    1. from teaching them a model of this duplicitous world
    2. from teaching them that their own sweat and blood fills the pockets of the bourgeoisie
    3. from making them learn German.
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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    I'm trying to mostly expand my Japanese vocab and kanji recognition, but I'm also working on Mandarin and ASL.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (7 children)

    Currently, I am trying to learn... my native language: Russian. As counterintuitive as it might sound, I moved away from Russia while I was still a young child, so it never really developed much, and the things I knew got lost over time. Luckily, however, I retained a native accent and the conversational flow.

    I began this seriously maybe a few months ago, but I usually go from periods of light study to periods where I don't practice at all 😅 Nonetheless, I have definitely been progressing. I started by learning the alphabet, then by reading stuff whenever I got the chance (not serious stuff like books, but stuff like YouTube comments and titles), and once I got pretty good at reading, I began with studying the vocabulary and grammar.

    Studying words is fairly easy, but grammar is really the part I dislike the most as of now, in particular, the cases. So many rules... I suppose there is no other way to master them than by doing a lot of practice and correcting yourself whenever you can. I recently downloaded a book onto my computer that is designed to teach you Russian by doing a lot of exercises, and I think that I will begin using it soon. I also heard about scientific studies that say that your brain is really good at acquiring grammar rules by itself, so listening a lot, reading books, and immersing yourself might be the best technique. Sometimes, I can even get the gist of a video I watch that is completely in Russian! Such a satisfying feeling.

    As dialectical materialists, we know that progress is not always constant, so despite improving a lot, I sometimes (really often actually) still mess up the spelling of a word. It is important to have a growth mindset.

    What language are you learning? 😄

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    I am currently learning Chinese and Russian. Very different languages with very different challenges, but because of that it helps me not burn out on one language by switching for a few days or weeks to the other whenever i get fatigued with one.

    With Russian, learning the alphabet was the easiest part. It also has enough of a connection to other European languages that many words are not entirely new and i can connect them to words in other languages i already speak.

    The grammar is definitely the most difficult of all the languages i've learned or tried to learn so far, just because there are so many cases. But even there i frequently find parallels and similarities in the forms and patterns with my native language.

    Luckily pronunciation is also not too big of an issue for me, but i can imagine if you're not from that part of the world and you are used to completely different phonetics it can get tricky.

    What you say about acquiring grammar naturally over time is something i have always relied on when learning languages. Just drilling rules and forms doesn't really stick for me, so i need to use and hear them used in context over and over again.

    The next task i've set for myself is to start looking into forming a kind of mental map of the ways that various compound words connect with each other and how base words change meaning through added prefixes, because i found there is a lot of that in Russian.

    As for Chinese, it's practically the diametrical opposite. Everything i find easy about Russian i find hard in Chinese and vice versa. The grammar is very easy if not trivial, but the pronunciation is trickier than Russian, and the listening comprehension is super difficult for me still because of the tones.

    There are very few European loanwords, so most of the vocab is brand new. And where Russian has fairly long but mostly unique words that are not that difficult to memorize, Chinese has a lot of really short words and a ton of homophones, which means you are constantly having to add more meanings to sounds you already learned.

    Also, as a beginner not really being able to hear tones well, that basically quadruples the amount of homophones for you, and you need to kind of look for context clues as to which word is being used.

    Fortunately, in writing most of that ambiguity goes away (though not all, which has been an unpleasant surprise to discover...), but learning to read it is a permanently ongoing task, and you are always learning new characters.

    There are tricks to easier memorizing of characters and how they are pronounced, but that's just mnemonics, in the end you still have to learn each one individually.

    Still, i'd definitely say i have an easier and more fun time with Chinese than Russian, for now. I'm thinking of starting to write down what I've learned so far. Writing things down has always helped me memorize things better... that's how i would always learn my formulas for exams in uni.

    If i can get either language to about the level that my three years of French in high school got me, i would be happy for now.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 days ago (5 children)

    I'm also in a really weird situation regarding Russian, albeit a different one lol. I speak Russian at a native level. I can read, write (though I find cursive difficult), understand, and speak with a Moscow accent, even though I was born in the US and never stepped foot in Russia, because I lived in a community of people who fled the former USSR after it was illegally dissolved, so everyone around me spoke primarily Russian. I've used it at work with others who speak it natively and invariably was asked where in Russia I grew up, and they were shocked to learn that I grew up in Los Angeles. However, the form of the language I know is frozen at the point where my family left the USSR, so for example I say бутерброд for all forms of sandwiches and don't use сэндвич at all.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago* (2 children)

    I had taken a language class for my degree, Spanish, and I'm trying to keep up somewhat but have been focused on other things unfortunately. I try to read Spanish articles that get posted here, or lurk online in Spanish spaces, or listen to Spanish political videos.

    The internationalist socialist forum that was held in Mexico recently is something I've been watching on an off, and trying to better my comprehension, as listening and understanding are harder for me than reading.

    I'm honestly terrible at learning languages, as I get distracted too easily and forget vocabulary often. Though, in the future I plan to become fluent in Arabic and Farsi, and maybe Mandarin if it's relevant to work.

    I can already read and write Arabic, but I wasn't given a formal education in it, and was taught by reading and memorizing Surahs in the Quran, as well as just being around Arab relatives. I speak Farsi the most naturally of the languages I have some understanding of, but I'm more adept at Spanish due to formal education. Since my mother often asks things of me in Farsi, and speaks to her family in Farsi (also since I've been in Iran for extended periods of time), I'm able to infer things about Farsi a lot easier then Arabic.

    Although I can't actually read Farsi much funny enough, even though I can read Arabic (sorta). Because I was taught Arabic through the Quran, I only know how to read very formal Arabic with Tashkeel (I might be confusing the name) which indicate how exactly to say a word, something that Farsi doesn't have.

    To give an example of what I mean, let's say you have the letter:

    ب

    Well, depending on the Tashkeel, that letter can make a variety of sounds:

    • With a "fatha" بَ is read "beh", or "bah" if followed by ا
    • With a "kasrah" بِ is read "bih", or "bee" if followed by ي
    • With a "dummah" بُ is read "boh", or "boo" if followed by و

    There's also "sukoon" بْ and "shaddah" بّ which connects it to the previous letter, either by ending it on the sound "b" sound for the former, or continuing with another tashkeel for the latter: بَّ، بِّ، بُّ

    So you could get something like: "بِبُّ" which would read something like "bih'boh" where the end of the first sound connects with the second.

    There's even more with things called "Tanwin" بً،بٍ،بٌ which have the same rules as their singular counter parts, but the sound ends with "n" so it's like: "ben", "bin", "bun".

    Basically, this is a long winded way of saying, none of this us used in Farsi writing, (or even in coloquial Arabic, I'm just educated in an extremely formal script that is the Quran). So, whenever I try to read something in Farsi or Arabic without tashkeel, I just stand their gawking like an idiot because I get blindsided by every potential possible sound.

    I should also mention I'm not at all trained in Arabic grammer, which is an entirely different notorious can of worms.

    I'll probably become fluent eventually, when I have the means to do so, but until then, I'm a largely monolingual fool.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Chinese is the one I've kept after most consistently and am most dedicated to as a goal, but it is hard for me without the structure of a formal, in-person classroom setting. So I've mostly depended on different apps, which has had mixed success and I'm at a point now where the apps generally don't do much since I'm pretty clear on baseline level of Chinese. But the jump from that to "everything else" is where I easily get lost. There is still an enormous amount of vocabulary I don't know, or don't know well, and a lot of grammar rules I only have a passing familiarity with. I also just don't have very good listening comprehension and speaking confidence.

    The latest is trying to keep after it with speaking practice via an AI conversation-based app, but I've been falling off lately due to distraction of helping with family-related caregiving.

    I've also dabbled in a lot of languages via apps, but not stuck with any like with Chinese, and a lot of it I haven't retained. The ones I probably got the furthest in apart from Chinese are Japanese and French, but again, without structure, it's easy to miss on a holistic progression of learning and instead end up with a smattering of different levels of proficiency.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 days ago

    Yeah, apps definitely have limitations. I've tried to branch out to educating myself through media consumption whenever i can. I would like at some point to take an in-person class but it's tough when you have limited time and no language schools really close by.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago* (3 children)

    I'm learning German because I now live in a German-speaking country. I've been doing it on my own by immersion, but the immigration authorities are now planning to force me to take a course that I will have to pay for myself in order to keep my immigration status. Luckily, the company I work for has agreed to cover the costs completely.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Taking a course can be very useful to place some structure onto what you already learn by immersion. I had very little formal teaching in German when i first moved and had to pick up a lot of it through media, friends and school.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    Malayalam at the moment. Native tongue, but unfortunately rusty in expressing things in without resorting to english words. Basically trying to go from native speaker who is fine with colloquial tongue to literature oriented, mildly fancier writing. Probably need to read a ton of literature.

    Going beyond colloquial Malayalam is quite painful (kinda diglossic language). Tried to read some books and the frequency of dictionary look ups can be very demoralising lol (And a very specific annoyance of e-reader dictionaries sucking because its a heavily inflected language).

    I've been wanting to learn other Indic languages (Tamil - sister language to Malayalam basically, Bangla, Hindi) and Spanish. I maybe getting too ambitious.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

    Fascinating. What script does Malayalam use? Is it also written in one of the Indian scripts like Tamil or Hindi or is it closer to the South East Asian ones like Thai or Khmer?

    One of my secondary language learning ambitions is to learn to recognize as many languages as i can just by the way they look or sound, even if i don't speak a single word of them.

    Right now i can get the broad geographical areas mostly right but South East Asia in particular is still quite tricky because it's very diverse.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Felt the need to chime in since I saw no one talking about this: ASL (or, rather, the Brazilian equivalent of it, LIBRAS).

    It's mostly due to being something really different (the grammar is, sometimes, somewhat, kinda like Japanese?), and doing stuff like communicate with someone in a very loud club over a distance (did this, was really fun!).

    I say this, mostly, as perks that are less obvious than being able to strike conversation with deaf people. But this is the most important part.

    Also, it let's me better understand deafness and deaf culture, as well as accessibility and how people often suffer under capitalism, mostly on what may or may not be classified as a disability.

    I don't remember if we have a quote from Helen Keller, but she as a great comrade on her own right, denouncing the horrors that capitalism subjects people's bodies, and how that should end.

    For those who do not know, she was deafblind from an extremely young age, but coming from a very wealthy family, she got a 24/7 tutor. She even got "oralized". Media picked up the "miracle worker" and the "overcoming her disability" story. Then, when she radicalized, the media took her out of the spotlight.

    Anyways, it's been real fun!

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    [–] 9 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    I'm currently learning German for necessity and it's quite annoying but pretty good at the same time. Doing grammatical work is super fun, and my new teacher teaching us by doing one informal test every week really makes it much easier to learn. I am on B2 currently tho, so many of the earlier issues are gone and I mostly struggle now with specific non common words and adjectives or adverbs/prepositions and some harder things. You could try what my teacher does to us, in 4 months with 4 days per week of studying you can probably go to the lower levels of the next A1/B2 level by yourself or almost double that for C1/2 so I heard

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    When i learned German what really helped me improve past the beginner/intermediate phase was to start reading books. I still didn't really understand the grammar theory (still don't know what a genitive is) but after a while i found i could just "instinctively" use the correct form...

    At least if i remembered the gender of a noun, and that was the part that took the longest because a) there is no rhyme or reason (for the most part) and you just have to learn them, and b) my native language is also gendered so i would frequently make incorrect assumptions based on what felt "right" to me.

    I'm not taking any courses right now in the languages i'm learning but i may try it in the future if i can find an in-person course.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

    Spanish. However, I'm bad at focusing at one language at the time so sometimes I flip-flop between Spanish and French. They are both Romance languages, so I can understand a lot (Spanish even more so since it's very similar to Portuguese (my native language)).

    I have a little strategy for reading theory books. I keep two translations of a text in different tabs. Whenever I start to get bored of reading, I switch to the Spanish translation. When I start to get bored again, I then switch to English. Perks of being bilingual lol.

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